To think cutting people out of your life is just cruel

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

I know I am risking a real flaming here, and I honestly do appreciate that every case is very different and I cannot judge anything without knowing each case. However I see a lot of advice on here, mostly in relationships, where the advice is to 'just walk away' or 'cut them out of your life'. Now, in many cases I can see the point BUT......

I have a MIL. She is enormously hard work. Totally selfish, manipulative, vindictive and cannot even conceive of not getting her own way, a real pain in the ass. She drives me scatty and on occasion her manipulation makes me very angry. She repeatedly gets the hump and has little hissy fits, stopping speaking to DP and I for months on end (once because DP told his grandmother the dog had died ) then decides to make up. If you tackle her she tantrums - literally storming out screaming that she never wants to see you again. I suspect she could benefit from counselling but she won't even countenance it.

She is the mother to 4 grown up kids. 2 of them no longer speak to her and one is emigrating (in part I think to get away). This leaves DP. Oh joy. PIL are also homeless, having sold up to go travelling and when back in the UK they end up staying with us for months at a time, without really asking properly.

Anyway, sorry for length. Despite all this I see the total utter misery and heartbreak not seeing her 2 children causes her and I think they are really nasty for continuing to refuse to see her. At least part of her bad behaviour seems to stem from this misery. last week I could hear her crying her heart out (through the ceiling) and it turned out it was her 'lost' daughter's birthday (didn't talk to MIL, asked DP if he knew what was up). This is someone who ran away at 16 and is now back in touch with many others in the family but won't have anything to do with her parents.

They weren't abusive or anything, DP was living at home as an adult when she left and said at the time it just seemed like the usual teenage angst (ok, it's a bit more complicated but not wanting to out self or anyone else).

Everytime anyone asks PIL if DD is their first grandchild they just look stricken. They have 5 grandchildren but don't even know the names of all of them and have never met any but DD. Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery.

Anyway - AIBU to think that people should sometimes be a bit more forgiving and tolerant? families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel.

Go on, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.....

No, it's not cruel. Some people deserve it.

What about those who don't? My PIL haven't had contact with one of their sons for many years and not seen their DGS by that son since he was 4 - I doubt they would even recognise him now.

But from where we sit it has always seemed that SIL was the toxic one in the relationship. She was always a difficult and volatile woman given to huge rages. We were there once when she went utterly ballistic over some trivial remark my other BIL made and ended up storming out of the house and not speaking for weeks. That was patched up eventually but other events occurred which led to dreadful scenes with her yelling and shouting at poor bewildered PILs who just don't do confrontation. When she finally decided to cut herself off from the family we believe she gave BIL (DH's bro) an ultimatum to choose her and their DS his family. Mnetters wiould be proud of him - he chose his wife.

I have always felt I was incredibly lucky with my PIL and had a good relationship with them so it is very hard to see what could possibly have caused the reaction they got.

I realise though that it is different for everyone and I must admit OP's MIL sounds like she has brought most of her unhappiness on herself

OP, if you think cutting people out of your life is cruel and selfish, you clearly have grown up in a loving home and have not lived with toxic parents. Or maybe you have and have normalised abuse.

We have cut DH's mum out and it was the best move we ever made. It's been nearly a year since we saw/spoke to her last so it's early days. She has been an abusive drunk most of her life as a parent and has caused DH nothing but heart ache.

When we had DD, we thought we'll give her another chance in order to allow DD to have a relationship with her gran but it took MIL 8 months to get even worse. If we had stayed in contact, not only would it have impacted on DH's mental health and probably cost us our marriage, but she would have also started to abuse DD.

It was our duty as parents to rid us of this woman. Staying in touch would have been selfish and cruel towards DD.

Anyone can create a child sadly but the title of mother and father is something that has to be earned imo!

ratbag I have a similar stipulation in my will that my kids are never to go into the 'possession' of my sister. our solicitor tried to argue me out of it but I was adamant. my sister would see it solely as that - not caring for my kids, but that they were now here and all the monetary bonus that came with it.

I didn't take the decision to cut her lightly. I'd had and had put up with years of her behaviour. but when dc1 came along she was exceptionally jealous, and used my mothers ill health as a way to try to get my parents to stop talking to me (very nice abridged version here). thankfully my parents are decent people who've dealt with their own dysfunctional families to know something was off. their choice is to still deal with her despite that, but they now respect mine to keep my kids away from her.

Nobody cuts a family member out of their lives easily. Usually it is after years of abuse and loads of angst. Then you've got to spend the rest of your life covering up the fact that you aren't in contact with your family due to other people judging you for it. Believe me, it is not easy.

I'm pretty sure that my father goes around telling people how evil I am for having cut contact with him (poor him, poor him), and how I was clearly 'poisoned' against him by my mother. I'm sure his family all say the same, and complain that I keep his grandchildren from him etc.

But, that's not the case at all. I cut my father out of my life because he is toxic and it screwed me up my whole childhood. It was only once I was 21 that I was able to draw my line in the sand and say 'enough is enough'. I can honestly say that I do not regret it one iota. I absolutely would never give him a second chance, no matter what anyone claimed about him having changed etc.

It isn't a sad situation with no winners. I am much better off for having done so. My children are much better off too, both because I am happier and healthier for not letting him have the opportunity to emotionally abuse me and because he doesn't have a chance to emotionally abuse them too. He may be miserable or whatever (although I doubt he's actually capable of really caring that I don't want to see him, it's likely he'd only be upset about the bruises to his ego, and probably revels in the 'poor me' attention from his family and girlfriend), but it really isn't my problem. He is reaping what he sowed.

IME there is almost always a very good reason when someone has cut contact with a parent or other family member. Just because the cut out family member is doing a big performance of their misery doesn't change anything.

some people dont like being walked all over and treated like shit , but you seem to enjoy so you carry on love

In terms of cut out parents who 'don't deserve it'. My mother would say that my grandmother (the bloody evil one who was physically and emotionally abusive, as opposed to the other one who was 'just' emotionally abusive) was unfairly cut off by her brother.

He cut his mother out of his life vey shortly after he got married. My mother and grandmother always used to blame his (allegedly) awful wife for this. Yet, he didn't get back in contact with his mother after they divorced. Several years after that he did allow his mother some contact but it was very short lived. The reason: she was an absolutely dreadful person and a dire mother.

However, my mother had internalised the abuse so much that she couldn't see that. Even after my grandmother threw my sister (aged 7) down the stairs and attacked me with a knife (aged 10, for the 'crime' of having switch channel on the TV) my mother refused to see her for what she was. Indeed, she wouldn't even believe me or my sister about what had happened in the knife incident and decided instead to punish me for running away from home and being rude to my grandmother. Hence, at 10, I would leave the house to avoid her.

Even now my mother can't see her mother for what she was. She tried (and still tries) to blame all manner of things for her mothers's dreadful behaviour. Apparently it was all her second husband's fault, or anything else that allows her to stop her having to acknowledge that her mother was totally toxic. She resents her brother for not attending their mother's funeral, but as far as I'm concerned he was absolutely in the right (I refused to go too, as I was not going to pretend to mourn her passing).

yabvu, it's your mils own fault that her children have shut her out. She chooses her own behaviour and it's not the responsibility of other people to indulge it.

You are entitled to continue facilitating her toxic mentality for as long as you want, she will never change until she faces up to the reality of who she is and how her behaviour affects others, for as long as there's someone to put up with her nonsense, feeding the poison, she has no reason to change.

Your tolerance isn't doing her any favours, your judgement of her escaped children extremely ignorant and seems self serving. You feel that you can't marry because of the family separation and I'm sure you'd also prefer the others to be around to lighten the load of her craziness. It's not your siblings in laws fault that you put up with this selfish, crazy woman and therefore stuck doing it alone, it's not their fault that she is a toxic creature who has nothing but negativity to bring into their lives. The blame lies solely with your mil and whatever problems you have for indulging her are your responsibility.

Cutting out people who make you ill with their abuse isn't cruel, it is the only intelligent, rational, healthy option. If everybody did that abusers would have to change as they would have nobody to abuse.

OP I think you are looking at this very naively.

Your MIL suffers yes, but it does not appear she has made any attempts at modifying her behaviour or really considered WHY two of her children have cut her adrift. She wallows in self pity instead.

FWIW, DH and I have absolutely nothing to do with FIL anymore, and bare minimal contact with MIL (not because we won't see her but because she is too lazy to get a 40 minute train to us and her GD). FIL was a shit father to DH, in and out of work his whole life, providing no support in regards to schooling and convinced DH he'd never make anything of himself, they struggled massively financially but he always had money for 'fags', ran up debts behind MIL back so DH and his siblings lived with regular bailiff visits.

As an adult DH helped massively, contributed to bills while he still lived there, then when he moved out he gave his Dad his old car (even though he could have sold it on for a profit), we paid for them to come on holiday with us as they'd never been abroad before etc. Really tried to help them out, then when DH had a row with his sister, his Dad got involved, spilled bile down the phone and they have never spoken since, this was almost two years ago, not even an enquiry via someone else into how DD is doing, it's just like we do not exist anymore.

This is a mild experience to what others have endured on here, I do not feel an ounce of synpathy for those cut off, ime there is always a good reason for it.

Sorry not read every post so may be repeating people but...

Yes, it is quite a cruel thing to do in that it may cause pain. And guilt over that cruelty is what often binds people to horrible, manipulative parents/in-laws or other relatives. I include myself in that - my mum is awful, my 2 sisters don't see her, my dp LOATHES her, but I'm the only one with kids - her only dgc - and to cut her out would be a really big step because it would hurt her so much.

It would be especially cruel because she just can't see that she's unpleasant. She is cutting, critical, needy, selfish, extraordinarily rude, stupid and irresponsible, and has done things in the past that are completely unforgivable - yet she genuinely, I am pretty sure, thinks she's nice, that I and her gc love her, and that if anyone doesn't like her it must be THEM at fault (despite the mounting numbers of them!). She would be horrified and gutted if I cut her off, which is why I've wavered over the years but not done it. I would love to do it, if it weren't for that. And that is how she gets what she desires.

OTOH I have cut my dad off, I did so 20+ years ago (when my parents separated), and if you had him in your family OP, I bloody well hope you would too. He's a vile, abusive, self-absorbed, completely unempathetic monster with the emotional age of a toddler and to top it all off he's a paedophile - never mind being cruel, he's dangerous and I don't ever want him anywhere near my kids. I agree with posters who say some people just have to be cut out of your life so you can carry on.

you are being naive and she is playing you sorry to say that but you heard her crying damn right she made sure of that. A hallmark of toxic parents is to play the victim she is the common denominator in a lot of misery.

So she's totally vindictive and manipulative - and you want her in your dd's life.
You've not responded to any of the comments about your SIL - have you talked to her about this ?
Your MIL sounds like a vile bitch - and you blame everyone else for this.
You are enabling her.
No - those of us who have been through the pain and misery of going NC are not cruel - we are trying to survive.
I hope you see sense - before she starts manipulating your DD - as she has already done a good job on you and your DH.

YABU

This "families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel."

Sometimes walking away isn't the easy option. Its not in my case, not at all. I'm home on maternity leave with a preschooler with additional needs and a newborn, in terms of practical help I would much rather have my family around and emotionally I could also use the support.

Having mentioned earlier about my cutting off my sister, I just thought I ought to add that her behaviour was learned. From my vile natured grandmother who we all had to put up with because "family meant more than anything". So not only am I exceptionally aware of what keeping a toxic family member around can do to the younger generations I'm watching my mother's health decline rapidly thanks to the stress of nearly 40 years of having to deal with my toxic gran. Now my kids may not get much time with their grandparents. One rotten apple possibly ruining things for the next 3 generations. Call me nasty, horrible, etc but I'm not perpetuating it. My kids are going to have good positive role models whether they are related or not (or at least in as much as I can help it).

OP, i have cut a relative out. I didn't do this lightly. I don't think anyone does. I did it cos i was fed up with being hurt (been going on for years) and don't want to be hurt again. Sometimes, you come to realise that you can't stand the pain anymore, and as painful as it is to cut the ties, you do it because you really can't cope with their behaviour. Some people need to realise that there are consequences for appalling behaviour and that you can't just treat people badly and get away with it.

LadyBigToes, so basically your mum can do anything she likes, behave as badly as she wants because she believes she's a nice person and would be too hurt by no contact?

My god. She's a lucky woman to have you on her side. Hope she doesn't damage your dcs.

Do you think your dad being such a villain has raised your tolerance levels somewhat?

Yabvvvvu, there is a reason why people cut others out of their lives, and the decision is not taken lightly. Life is to short to keep in contact with toxic, vile and asty and cruel people. You don't know the circumstances of everyone's situation, not everything is black and white or clear cut.

What do you do with a toxic relative if there is no prospect of improvement? If they say sorry, with lots of tears, and then do whatever it was all over again the next time you see them? If their fundamental attitude to the relationship (whether or not they admit it) is 'I dish it out, and because I'm your [insert relevant relationship here] you have to take
it'?

Your MIL may well be genuinely very upset. You say yourself it is impossible to talk to her about it. She has no insight, then, hasn't changed and her other children seem to have a stark choice of cut her off, or resign themselves to a Groundhog Day scenario of the mistreatment recurring at regular intervals.

I do think it is unfair, and naive, to say people who choose the cutting off option are cruel or selfish or even unreasonable. Plenty of people cut contact for reasons of simple self-preservation: it's that or a breakdown, or the loss of other relationships. Some do it to protect the next generation. Or simply because they don't think family duty is a good enough reason to put up with being treated so badly. And if someone has to suffer, it can be the abuser, not the abused.

OP - I would have sympathy for your MIL if one of her DCs had cut her out, but that three have either cut her out altogether or managed to distance themselves suggest rather clearly the problem isn't with them, but with her.

1. You don't get to decide what other people find unacceptable
2. You are not related to her, and therefore her failings don't impact on you, now, or when you were younger in the same way as blood relatives
3. I understand you feel she is inadequate, rather than cruel, but they clearly feel her inadequacy has never been properly addressed, and they find that either unforgiveable or impossible to change.
4. there is so much more pressure to remain amicable with family than there is to cut them off. I can't agree that it is "easier" to walk away

Sounds like she has no one to blame but herself!

So I am cruel for cutting out my sexually abusive father?

You are cruel for perpetuating the stigma that victims of abuse face. Just to be self righteous?

You have no idea

The thing about walking away (and part of the reason it's so hard) is that you don't simply cut out the toxic family member. You end up having to cut contact with lots of other family members or, at the very least, you end up missing out on family events etc because you cannot cope with one particular family member any longer. It's hardly the easy option.

When I cut my dad out, it meant losing contact with everyone on his side of the family. I liked my cousins and aunts and uncles, but it was the only way that I could be sure to not have to see my dad. The big problem is that the rest of the family have attitudes like the OP's and would not support the decision. Yet, it was still the right thing to do. It's much more important that my children can grow up in a loving and happy family.

I think the "blood is thicker than water" attitude that some have can be extremely damaging. Just because you're blood-related to someone, doesn't make them someone you want or need in your life - and if they're causing damage or detriment to your life, then surely it's better to stay away from them.

Interesting that so far on this thread only one poster (I think) has talked about a possibly toxic in-law causing a family rift for no obviously good reason. That does happen of course and THAT is very sad, and yes, cruel to the "innocent" party/ies.