To think cutting people out of your life is just cruel

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

I know I am risking a real flaming here, and I honestly do appreciate that every case is very different and I cannot judge anything without knowing each case. However I see a lot of advice on here, mostly in relationships, where the advice is to 'just walk away' or 'cut them out of your life'. Now, in many cases I can see the point BUT......

I have a MIL. She is enormously hard work. Totally selfish, manipulative, vindictive and cannot even conceive of not getting her own way, a real pain in the ass. She drives me scatty and on occasion her manipulation makes me very angry. She repeatedly gets the hump and has little hissy fits, stopping speaking to DP and I for months on end (once because DP told his grandmother the dog had died ) then decides to make up. If you tackle her she tantrums - literally storming out screaming that she never wants to see you again. I suspect she could benefit from counselling but she won't even countenance it.

She is the mother to 4 grown up kids. 2 of them no longer speak to her and one is emigrating (in part I think to get away). This leaves DP. Oh joy. PIL are also homeless, having sold up to go travelling and when back in the UK they end up staying with us for months at a time, without really asking properly.

Anyway, sorry for length. Despite all this I see the total utter misery and heartbreak not seeing her 2 children causes her and I think they are really nasty for continuing to refuse to see her. At least part of her bad behaviour seems to stem from this misery. last week I could hear her crying her heart out (through the ceiling) and it turned out it was her 'lost' daughter's birthday (didn't talk to MIL, asked DP if he knew what was up). This is someone who ran away at 16 and is now back in touch with many others in the family but won't have anything to do with her parents.
They weren't abusive or anything, DP was living at home as an adult when she left and said at the time it just seemed like the usual teenage angst (ok, it's a bit more complicated but not wanting to out self or anyone else).

Everytime anyone asks PIL if DD is their first grandchild they just look stricken. They have 5 grandchildren but don't even know the names of all of them and have never met any but DD. Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery.

Anyway - AIBU to think that people should sometimes be a bit more forgiving and tolerant? families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel.

Go on, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.....

[maja00]

So ThinkAboutIt, are you honestly saying you will never cut your MIL out, even if her behaviour damages your children?

Because surely to do so would be really harsh.

[EllaFitzgerald]

OP, why don't you try looking at it from the angle of the people who have been emotionally abused since childhood by this awful woman. Perhaps it will seem less harsh then.

[yamsareyammy]

2 weeks would be nowhere near enough.
If she was a bit better after a year, then it might be worth considering.
And you are assuming that even if they forgave her[and by no means do all people do that], they they are stong enough mentally to cope with her. A big ask imo. She will be able to run rings around them, and always wil,l after what she has done to them.
Have any of them had breakdowns btw? Not that you would necessarily know.

She has seriously messed with their lives.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

maja No, I've said I will protect DD at all costs but that doesn't have to involve cutting her out altogether forever.

e.g. returning her Christmas and birthday cards unopened, having family get togethers and inviting everyone but her and FIL etc

One of the reasons it is DP not DH is that we can't face the idea of having a wedding and having to pick sides - because DBIL wouldn't come if PIL came and my DP would really want his brother at the wedding.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

No - no breakdowns (well the sister that ran away at 16 I think may have come close but DV was involved - from the partner that she ran away from home to be with against her parent's wishes).

[maja00]

So you can imagine protecting your own child, but don't have any empathy for the children who had to live with this women with no one to protect them?

[Whereisegg]

After huge troubles with my alcoholic sister (she binges for days/weeks at a time, but doesn't wake up shaking so can and does go months without a drink) I decided I'd had enough.

Made it very clear I wanted a healthy relationship with her, and would be waiting for the 'I don't drink anymore' phone call.

I now have a 10 & 7 year old. She has never seen either, and uses the fact as a reason as to why she continues to drink.

YABU

[Mia4]

time off for good behaviour Time off for good behaviour? Are you serious? You think a couple of weeks of moping and whining make up for all past transgressions.

I'm sorry but the more i hear of this OP the more i hear 'me me me' coming from your post. You're annoyed now that you're seeing this, that this is impacting on you and DPs life, that you see MIL in her 'sorry moment'. Next month you may well be doing as you say and ranting because she's upsetting you or DP and DC and MIL is being a heartless bugger!

Sorry but this sounds all about you and your DP, you haven't even bothered to answer as people have said-that you are enabling this woman to carry on behaving like this. Perhaps if you did her 'good behaviour' may last longer.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

I think the weird thing maja is that when I first met DBIL he seemed very happy and to be very close to his parents. Really relied on them and went out of his way to see them. If anything I would have described him as a bit of a mummy's boy. Then he started to be more independent in his early 20's, just as his mum was menopausal (FWIW) and things went horribly wrong.

Also - just to be clear the sister who is emigrating still spends about 3 hours a week skyping her mum. She wants to be close but just at a distance. I think she is being very sensible.

That's why I see a mum who was difficult rather than one they needed protecting from.

BUT - I totally see the points about straws and camels and also about not being able to rely on DPs experience of growing up as a guide to how they all felt.

And yes, the numbers do seem stacked in favour of it being her rather than them.

[Fakebook]

No, it's not cruel. Some people deserve it. I'd rather cut contact and live a happy life, than remain in regular contact and live a miserable life stewing over what was said to me for weeks and months on end, and then having it start all over again with the next contact.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

Mia4 it's not a couple of weeks - it's the last 16 years she has been miserable, although I have only known her for 14 of them.

And no, it's not really about me, if that's what it sounds like then I am phrasing it wrong. The 'me' stuff is more about why I am involved, such that I am. I am a very peripheral player in this and in no way impacted as much as the rest of the family. She has never hurt me and I am very conscious of that being different for others.

[yamsareyammy]

Sounds like one of the sisters can cope.
Sounds like you DH copes to a degree. And actully, it sounds like he is still craving their approval, as if he is 10 maybe. And ironically, partly because he emotionally distanced himself from them at aged 10, exactly the thing you are not wanting the other siblings to do.

But never forget that each and every child is different, and each and every child will have been treated at least slightly differently.

Good post Mia.

[Mia4]

She may have been miserable for 16 years, but you said yourself she's been behaving herself the last 2 weeks-that's very different.

And sorry but the me thing comes across loud to me, you say it yourself 'she's never hurt you' so while you are a player-you aren't one of the main ones or one that's had to live with this. As many before have showed parents can be very different to different siblings and at times. You asked if cutting people out was cruel or WYBU, since pretty much 95% have told you YWBU perhaps you should think more about that-at first it sounded like you changed your mind and understood but then to say it's harsh shows obviously you aren't thinking about it from another POV but your own.

[Mia4]

Thanks yamsareyammy

[SunshineBossaNova]

YABU. My grandad is a deeply, deeply selfish man who was vile to my late grandmother. He has been looked after by my DM and her siblings, including six months on our sofa rent-free while I was a child. He hasn't been cut off at all, but if you listen to him moaning you could imagine his cruel children don't do anything for him at all.

[Solari]

Its different when you are interacting with this woman as adult-to-adult, and your own childhood has not been entirely shaped and sculpted by her.

Her children will be far more affected by interaction with her, because she holds that 'mother' position (which can be very powerful to counteract), and will be able to press buttons and invoke memories that no one else is even aware of.

Most people don't cut someone off (let alone a parent) flippantly, they usually give many, many warnings, and ultimately it can really boil down to an act of self-preservation, not just to make life easier.

I think it is nice that you are trying to sympathise with her, despite your own annoyance, but experience tells me that you almost never know the full story in cases like this.

[SarahAndFuck]

YABU. I doubt that anyone cuts someone out of their life easily or on a whim. You have to be unhappy and at your wits end to cut someone out, especially if it's a parent.

You could possibly be related to me. Long story.

DH is one of four siblings. One has emigrated, three still in the country. Eldest is an alcoholic and addict. All of them left home at 16, as soon as they were able to get out. DH is youngest. They all have issues, self-esteem, anger, emotionally reserved etc.

PILs are emotionally controlling, manipulative, spiteful and cruel. They love their children but cannot allow them to live their own lives, believe that their children owe them. Don't take responsibility for their own lives, their children are there to keep them happy and pander to every whim.

DH once told me that he grew up either being farmed out to grandparents or used as a way to show off. Said that he was told from an early age that if he ever upset is mother she would have a mental breakdown and it would be all his fault.

MIL sees everything as a personal slight to her, gets her own way by crying and FIL by bullying. Constantly disowning people and then taking offence because they then don't visit and pretend that all is fine. They are jealous and possessive and mean. They lie to suit themselves.

MIL is either casually or deliberately cruel. Both of them have harassed me to the point of illness, caused me to have panic attacks. They split up BIL and his fiancé with their behaviour and then when he married someone else they pushed her to breaking point and she almost divorced him. They emigrated instead.

It's not cruel to cut people like that out of your life. It's self preservation. It's sensible. Sometimes it's essential. And yes, I've done it and never looked back. Should have done it years earlier. I'd never have married DH if I'd known. We lost two babies and I'd still have married him knowing how painful that would be, but if I could have seen what was coming with his parents I would have run for the hills. They are that bad.

So again, YABU.

[badtime]

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU.
I am arms-length rather than non contact with my parents, but I completely understand why the latter is the best course of action for some people.

Because my parents are basically bullies, and I am now someone they have no control over (and much stronger than them in most ways) I do not have as much trouble from them now, but I am very careful to maintain my boundaries. I will never like my parents very much, because I know what they are, and how they would treat a child who depended on them.

If someoneis raised by people like this, they won't always have normal boundaries, and may not be able to deal with your parents in a way that is healthy. If this is the case, no contact may be the only way to preserve their mental health.

Shame on you, OP, for trying to make people who have chosen to withdraw from contact with their families feel guilty and ashamed (don't say you didn't, you called them cruel), when the reason they withdrew contact is often because of the emotionally abusive, guilt-tripping behaviour of the family members in question and the damage it does to their sense of self.

You should just be grateful you have never been put in this position.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

Thanks everyone. I think you are all right, in so far as relationships are complicated, people are different and we never have full knowledge. You see, this is why I prefer spreadsheets.

Anyway, I may sound judgmental but I'm just deeply sad. There are no winners here, everyone loses and it's a miserable situation all round.

I guess my conclusion is that I still think it is cruel to cut someone out but I agree it is not selfish, it is self protection and they are different. I was being unreasonable about that.

Off to the worlds longest meeting (on the hottest day of the year - hurrah!) so not being rude if I don't come back for some time. maybe even after this has petered out.

[sherbetpips]

My own Mum is not a good MIL. She acts totally differently around my SIL's and is hyper critical of them. Her and my dad stay stuff that should really stay in there heads. The eldest SIL did intially cut them off until her children were old enough to say it wasn't fair that they had no grandparents (her parents had sadly passed away). Since making contact again my parents appear to have learnt and things are going okay. However the behaviour has now transferred to the newest SIL who is hyper sensitive about pretty much everything. I have told her time and time again to ignore it (its never anything truly awful just drunken opinions) but no she sits there, gets in an argument, bursts into tears and then my Brother shouts at my parents. (usually involves the end off a long evening and wine....). So she no longer visits now, just him. On one hand I want mum and dad to remember that they cannot say whatever they like even if it is true and on the other hand I want her to stop being so pathetic. My own MIL regularly crticices me and when it gets too much I tell her to stop and that she is being rude. It stops for a while and she slags all her other IL's off instead....
So to answer the OP if there is no discernable physical or verbal abuse involved then it is unfair to cut off people as I think we can all often forget how much people put up with from us.
My BF's sister cut the whole family off (crazy husband who was very possesive) who literally threw her parents out on the street without any way of contacting anyone to get home. They have had two children since who have never met her sister or parents. Its a real shame for everyone.

[twinklyfingers]

Yabu

You sound like you are in some sort of bubble about this. You describe individual situations as if they were not enough to justify cutting someone off. IME people cut off close family members after a life time of often subtle abuse which culminates in a major stressful and distressing incident which prompts the abused individual to assess everything and decide they can no longer have that person in their life. I realise this isn't always the case, but this happened with my DM and her father.

I also think it is strange that you will protect your daughter from future behaviour, but cannot understand her own children acting to protect themselves. They get to decide what is acceptable for them. Not allowing children to grow up is abusive behaviour IMO. Reprieves for "good behaviour" are a ridiculous notion, and shows that you really are not trying to empathise with her children. Why would they return to a relationship where they have been repeatedly hurt and let down? For "good behaviour"?

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

And I mean it is SOMETIMES cruel to cut someone out. Obviously almost everyone on this thread has had personal experience of some very valid and deserved cut offs.

[sparechange]

OP, maybe it would be easier for you to understand if you liken the emotional abuse to physical abuse because I think you are trivilaising emotional abuse quite a lot, and perhaps not seeing how damaging it can be.

If your MIL had been punching lumps out of her children for their childhood, would you find it more forgivable for your SIL to have left?
And what if she then went a few days without hitting anyone? Does that mean the children would have a duty to forgive and come back? What if she then lost it and beat her up again? Does it only cross the red line when it leaves bruises? Breaks bones? Results in a hospital stay?

Emotional abuse might not leave the same visable marks that physical abuse does, but trust me and the countless others on MN that the emotional scars can take as long and sometimes longer to heal.

It is quite often the case that when you are an adult and start to address your own issues, whether those are in relationships, or with eating disorders or anxiety issues or whatever else is holding you back, you soon realise either under your fruition or with the help of some outside help that you can't address your own problems until you deal with the root cause of them.

If a woman gets seven shades of shit kicked out of her by a partner, you don't tell her to discharge herself from hospital and go back home for round 2. Equally, anyone dealing with the scars of an abusive childhood doesn't want to have more blows dealt down on them day after day.

[twinklyfingers]

sherbet this is a ridiculous thing to say: if there is no discernable physical or verbal abuse involved then it is unfair to cut off people as I think we can all often forget how much people put up with from us.

So mental and emotional abuse doesn't count? Repeated and vicious acts such as lying to others, stealing, manipulation, twisting situations, is no reason to cut some off? (I am not suggesting OP's MIL did these things, I'm just giving an example of other types of abusive behaviour.) And discernible to whom? Do you have to publicise that someone is treating you this way, just so everyone realises how awful they are? If it were me, I'd rather end the relationship quietly and with dignity by cutting contact and not discussing that person.

I find your logic baffling.

[twinklyfingers]

sparechange puts it very well.