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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think cutting people out of your life is just cruel

307 replies

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 16/07/2013 09:44

I know I am risking a real flaming here, and I honestly do appreciate that every case is very different and I cannot judge anything without knowing each case. However I see a lot of advice on here, mostly in relationships, where the advice is to 'just walk away' or 'cut them out of your life'. Now, in many cases I can see the point BUT......

I have a MIL. She is enormously hard work. Totally selfish, manipulative, vindictive and cannot even conceive of not getting her own way, a real pain in the ass. She drives me scatty and on occasion her manipulation makes me very angry. She repeatedly gets the hump and has little hissy fits, stopping speaking to DP and I for months on end (once because DP told his grandmother the dog had died Confused) then decides to make up. If you tackle her she tantrums - literally storming out screaming that she never wants to see you again. I suspect she could benefit from counselling but she won't even countenance it.

She is the mother to 4 grown up kids. 2 of them no longer speak to her and one is emigrating (in part I think to get away). This leaves DP. Oh joy. PIL are also homeless, having sold up to go travelling and when back in the UK they end up staying with us for months at a time, without really asking properly.

Anyway, sorry for length. Despite all this I see the total utter misery and heartbreak not seeing her 2 children causes her and I think they are really nasty for continuing to refuse to see her. At least part of her bad behaviour seems to stem from this misery. last week I could hear her crying her heart out (through the ceiling) and it turned out it was her 'lost' daughter's birthday (didn't talk to MIL, asked DP if he knew what was up). This is someone who ran away at 16 and is now back in touch with many others in the family but won't have anything to do with her parents.

They weren't abusive or anything, DP was living at home as an adult when she left and said at the time it just seemed like the usual teenage angst (ok, it's a bit more complicated but not wanting to out self or anyone else).

Everytime anyone asks PIL if DD is their first grandchild they just look stricken. They have 5 grandchildren but don't even know the names of all of them and have never met any but DD. Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery.

Anyway - AIBU to think that people should sometimes be a bit more forgiving and tolerant? families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel.

Go on, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.....

OP posts:
TroublesomeEx · 19/07/2013 18:17

I don't hold a grudge against my mother.

The longer I spend without her in my life, the more I 'get' her.

I have forgiven her for not loving me. But I can't forgive her for the way that made her behave towards my children and me.

I don't hold a grudge. I'm not angry, I don't hate her. I just don't ever want to see her ever again.

TroublesomeEx · 19/07/2013 18:20

What I'm saying is that sometimes cutting off is the most positive, but difficult, thing to do. It's not selfish.

Absolutely.

grumpyoldbat · 19/07/2013 18:21

For many it's not an inability to forgive abuse or other bad behaviour but a last resort to try and stop further abuse and protect their own dc.

TroublesomeEx · 19/07/2013 18:22

And that ^^

CheungFun · 19/07/2013 18:25

I cut off my grandma, my grandad, and my dad and life is much better without them :)

Yes, there are two sides to every story, but I think if someone has gone as far as cutting someone out of their lives, they would have done so for a very good reason.

LittlePeaPod · 19/07/2013 18:46

YABU.. Going by your theory I should forgive my evil shit of a father and let him see my first child due in January. He should have thought about the consequences before beating my mother to a pulp in front of her kids.

His now old, lonely and apparently desperate for forgiveness and for us to get back in touch. Well you know what I say... Good riddens!

DontmindifIdo · 19/07/2013 22:03

Another thing (if you ever come back to this thread OP!)

You are judging the decision to cut someone off as in some way about punishing the person cut off. Few people who have cut someone out are doing it to hurt the person they cut off, it's not about them. If they get hurt, that's not the point of going non-contact, so appeals to them saying that the person being cut off is hurt by their action or is sorry won't make a difference because it's not about that. It's about protecting the person who is doing the cutting off (as you can see from this thread). They are trying to avoid their own hurt, not primarily trying to hurt someone else.

You said that your MIL is still showing bad behaviours to you, so she hasn't changed, so the people who have cut her off are right to continue to cut her out, because she will still hurt them if they let her back in. It doesn't really matter that she's upset. It matters that they are now not.

mrsdinklage · 20/07/2013 00:29

OP won't be back - because we are all evil and cruel Hmm

None of us went NC - because we are evil and cruel

We're The Self Preservation Society Wink

Wine Wine Wine
ZingWidge · 20/07/2013 00:57

mrsdinklage

I wonder of OP has hidden this thread.

would that mean we are all cruelly cut out of her life?

mrsdinklage · 20/07/2013 08:21

Zing - your right - she has cruelly - cut us all out of her life Shock

SarahAndFuck · 20/07/2013 10:24

ZingWidge - I don't think it's a case of forgive or hold a grudge.

I haven't forgiven my PILs, but I don't hold a grudge either.

They pushed me to breaking point and made me ill over a period of months and years. I cut them out to protect myself and my child rather than to punish them and it has helped.

My relationship with them is dead now. I don't have feelings for them, not even ones of dislike or hate. I feel nothing for them. It's a shame for DH and it may all rear up once DS is older and gets curious about them but at the moment all they are to me are people that I used to know, who I don't want to know any more.

Susan Forward has written some interesting things about forgiveness in her books, Toxic Parents and Toxic In-Laws where she is of the opinion that forgiveness to someone who has hurt you does not have to be part of your healing process.

Many people torment themselves over not feeling ready or able to forgive and SF is quite firm about the fact that forgiveness doesn't come at the beginning of a healing process and might not come at the end of one either, furthermore she doesn't believe forgiveness is necessary or always deserved.

I agree with her.

My PILs were and still are awful. They've affected all their children, one is now an alcoholic and drug user, another is emotionally reserved and has emigrated, the third has never had a functioning relationship but has picked a series of users and abusers and the fourth, DH, believes that he is responsible for his parents emotional wellbeing and must do everything they ask or cause a mental breakdown. He's suffered from self-esteem and anger issues because of this.

All four have spent their lives struggling against their emotionally abusive, controlled upbringing and PILs have held them, and now the extended family, to ransom with emotional blackmail, tantrums, anger, threats of disownment and withholding love and support until they get their own way.

One of their most bizarre family stories is the one where DH's pet rabbit was ill and instead of taking it to the vets they had a neighbour break it's neck and then leave it for DH to find. Then they laugh about how he came inside to tell them it was dead and then ran upstairs to cry. They have a lot of stories like this, including a really funny one about their friend in the army who would go away for weeks on end but they always knew when he was home because they'd see his wife with a black eye.

I feel into the same pattern of being controlled to keep the peace and probably still would be doing so, if not for the fact that we lost our son to stillbirth and MIL took it upon herself to subject me to a barrage of nastiness including asking me, three days after our son was stillborn, if it hurts to give birth to a dead baby. We later lost our daughter to prematurity and again MIL was deliberately cruel, eventually making comments about our children not being proper grandchildren, not counting as family and wondering aloud if our daughter was born with a whole face or with bits of it missing.

When I told them this was unacceptable and I would no longer put up with their nasty behaviour they spent months pretty much stalking me and telling lies about me and trying to convince DH to leave me, not by saying anything outright but by telling him lies about things I had supposedly done and said to them. None of them were true.

They tried to split up my marriage, not caring that by then we had a baby DS to consider, because they were not used to having someone stand up to them and say enough was enough and they didn't like it.

And when that didn't work, they deliberately started to interfere with our babies grave, taking fresh flowers away and leaving strange ornaments that looked to be stolen from other graves, putting things inside the metal holder that goes in the vase, balancing weird objects on it. It was like a bizarre version of an animal marking it's territory by pissing on something. They were marking our children's grave to let us know they had been there, taking away the things we had left and doing what they liked with it. We had to get the police involved before it stopped, and still I feel on edge and stressed whenever we go to the cemetery in case they have been back and done something odd.

It's upsetting because I feel like my children are being used and hurt, even though they are dead, and that I can't protect them because they are buried in a public place and I can't stand guard over them 24 hours a day.

Can I forgive all of that? Not yet. Maybe never. Do I still bear a grudge? No. I'm just glad that they are out of my life now and that they are not yet able to drip their poison onto our DS. I hope they never can. Do they deserve forgiveness? I don't think so. And OP, is it cruel to cut these people out? Not as cruel as they would still be being to us if we hadn't.

expatinscotland · 20/07/2013 10:29

YABU.

WinkyWinkola · 20/07/2013 11:03

SarahandFuck, oh my bloody god.

What hideous, vile, cruel and yes, evil people your pil are.

I am stunned by some of MNers family history on this thread. And in awe too by the managing and survival of it.

Cutting off family definitely seems to be the healthy and strong thing to do in many cases.

All power to those who just want to remove the corrosive rotten apples from their lives. Too many nasty pieces of work are tolerated.

Op, yabu.

Zazzles007 · 20/07/2013 11:09

I don't think the OP is going to come back to this thread. From what I can see from her posts, although she thinks her MIL is a PITA, self-serving, manipulative etc, I rather think that she is on the MIL's side, as it were. There are 2 types of people who will continue to hang around such dysfunctional people as her MIL - the children who are still in the FOG, and those like the OP, who essentially agree with the MIL's stance because in essence, they are more similar to the MIL than not. It is very telling that despite so many posters giving another view of her MIL, OP decided to run and hide, most probably not keeping up with this thread. Something I read last resonates enormously here - if you want to keep lying to yourself, then turn down the light of awareness. Deception is something that is best done in the dark.

Thumbwitch · 20/07/2013 12:51

SarahandFuck - you are pretty amazing to even feel nothing for those bastards. I'd still be hating the very thought of them. So sorry about them desecrating your children's graves, how inhumane of them. :( Angry

Zazzles - I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that the OP agrees with the MIL because she is more similar to her than not (although I could be wrong) - I think she just has troubles believing, from what SHE has experienced, that her DH's siblings have had it SO bad that they need to cut MIL off. And that's because she is basing it only on her own experience, which is completely self-absorbed and limiting, rather than trying to consider that her DH and siblings might have good reason to do what they have done. Perhaps more a lack of empathy with others' experience than a tendency to emotional manipulation and abuse.

Zazzles007 · 20/07/2013 13:03

Ah, you have expressed what I am thinking much better than I have Thumbwitch. I do think the OP seems to have rather self-absorbed tendencies much like her MIL, and so in that sense is more like her than not.

ZingWidge · 20/07/2013 13:09

Sarah

those things you described are horrible.
no wonder you have a totally different view on forgivness, because these evil things done to you and your family are way above and beyond the grudge category!

I said grudge because that's how I feel about my "problems".
apart from 2 things that were particularly bad and I find hard to forgive.
so although I feel I'm holding a grudge, maybe that is not a good description, it's just my angle and my lack of knowledge on synonyms and their correct meanings ( I'm not English)

I'm really sorry for all the hurt caused to you and your family.
so sorry for your losses as well

Also in my head there's a little difference between rejecting someone (cut off) or being unavailable to them (say you move away to lose contact)
but again that is just my take.
I don't think there are only 2 "choices" of holding a grudge or forgiving either, but they have been the most relevant for me so far.
there are many other levels.
I hope you see what I mean.

Thumbwitch · 20/07/2013 13:14

Ah I see, Zazzles - in which case we agree! Grin

mrsdinklage · 20/07/2013 13:15

SarahAndFuck - that is truly dreadful. Does your DH still see his P's ? I really do not think I could cope with that level of abuse.

BCBG · 20/07/2013 13:24

OP - I have only read about half the thread Blush and I can see that there are strong views, and I understand them, but I just wanted to say I think you sound like a truly lovely person Flowers. I had a mum like you describe, and she and her sister fell out for forty years. When my aunt was dying in hospital her son contacted my mum (his aunt) to tell her and my mum called the hospital and sent a card etc. She never got a reply and they were never reconciled before the sister died. My mum died a few years later. A lifetime of regrets for things said and unsaid. You can't decide what is right for your inlaws, but you can be the loving and tolerant person you are and bring your DCs up to be the same, and hopefully the next generation won't repeat the mistakes of the last. All any of us can hope for at times. Like I said, you sound a really kind person.

SarahAndFuck · 20/07/2013 18:14

Thank you all.

ZingWidge I think I do understand. It is hard to find the right words to describe something so complex.

I think my feelings tie into what Thumbwich was saying about feeling nothing for them. I don't know if that's the middle ground between forgiveness and grudge, because I can't see myself ever forgiving them. But I feel that I have released myself in some way by not letting them control me through my own anger and upset. It's not easy to let that go, but ultimately I feel better for trying even though it hasn't resulted in forgiveness and reconciliation with them.

mrsdinklage he does still see them. Not often, but he does. As with his siblings, he finds it hard to admit to himself what sort of people they really are and he hasn't really accepted that he is not responsible for giving them everything they want.

He wants them to be different, so each time they tell him they have changed he takes them at face value and ends up getting hurt again. I think he knows deep down that nothing ever has or ever will change with them, but he hopes.

The brother who emigrated sees things the other way, he has convinced himself that they are too set in their ways to change and thinks it best if everyone just pretends all is well now matter how upsetting they are. Which is easy to do from the other side of the world.

All four of them go through stages of either admitting how things are with their parents or trying to pretend things are normal.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 20/07/2013 19:01

What stood out to me was ThinkAboutItTomorrow saying something along the lines of everyone deserving a second chance. I suspect that the three siblings who have gone NC have given her many, many second chances, and have finally decided enough is enough - for their own self-protection, not to be cruel to her.

SarahAndFuck - my heart goes out to you - to go through all you have been through and to have your PIL doing such cruel things to you - how can anyone be that horrible?

I was very interested to read your mentioning the writer who thinks that you don't have to forgive in order to heal. I know it is nothing like any of the stories on this thread, but I was badly bullied at school, and have suffered from depression ever since (I was suicidal at 14) - and on several occasions I have been told that I should forgive the children who bullied me, in order to let go of that pain, and have felt like a huge failure because I can't forgive them, and am not sure if I ever will be able to.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit · 20/07/2013 19:19

I don't see why you should forgive them either. Forget them? Yes, if you can. But I don't plan on doing any forgiving, nor do I plan on letting anyone like that back in my life.

I really can't see the point of that tbh.

mrsdinklage · 20/07/2013 19:40

Yep - no forgiveness here either.

ArbitraryUsername · 20/07/2013 22:02

I don't think you need to forgive to heal. You need to move on and accept what happened to you, but you don't need to forgive whoever did it.