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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think cutting people out of your life is just cruel

307 replies

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 16/07/2013 09:44

I know I am risking a real flaming here, and I honestly do appreciate that every case is very different and I cannot judge anything without knowing each case. However I see a lot of advice on here, mostly in relationships, where the advice is to 'just walk away' or 'cut them out of your life'. Now, in many cases I can see the point BUT......

I have a MIL. She is enormously hard work. Totally selfish, manipulative, vindictive and cannot even conceive of not getting her own way, a real pain in the ass. She drives me scatty and on occasion her manipulation makes me very angry. She repeatedly gets the hump and has little hissy fits, stopping speaking to DP and I for months on end (once because DP told his grandmother the dog had died Confused) then decides to make up. If you tackle her she tantrums - literally storming out screaming that she never wants to see you again. I suspect she could benefit from counselling but she won't even countenance it.

She is the mother to 4 grown up kids. 2 of them no longer speak to her and one is emigrating (in part I think to get away). This leaves DP. Oh joy. PIL are also homeless, having sold up to go travelling and when back in the UK they end up staying with us for months at a time, without really asking properly.

Anyway, sorry for length. Despite all this I see the total utter misery and heartbreak not seeing her 2 children causes her and I think they are really nasty for continuing to refuse to see her. At least part of her bad behaviour seems to stem from this misery. last week I could hear her crying her heart out (through the ceiling) and it turned out it was her 'lost' daughter's birthday (didn't talk to MIL, asked DP if he knew what was up). This is someone who ran away at 16 and is now back in touch with many others in the family but won't have anything to do with her parents.

They weren't abusive or anything, DP was living at home as an adult when she left and said at the time it just seemed like the usual teenage angst (ok, it's a bit more complicated but not wanting to out self or anyone else).

Everytime anyone asks PIL if DD is their first grandchild they just look stricken. They have 5 grandchildren but don't even know the names of all of them and have never met any but DD. Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery.

Anyway - AIBU to think that people should sometimes be a bit more forgiving and tolerant? families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel.

Go on, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.....

OP posts:
fromparistoberlin · 17/07/2013 17:10

people.....

OP is not judging, if I read vicars post I fully emphasise with her, who would not??? jesus, and I understand why she cut them out

but she is asking a genuine question around tolerance and forgiveness which I think is laudable

good luck OP, I think you sound lovely

Khaleasy · 17/07/2013 17:10

YABVU.

I became estranged from my father two years ago because he is an evil man poisoning my life.
If MIL is insane as you say she is then personally I think it is selfish and cruel to NOT cut her off - selfish and cruel to you, your DP and your children.

TroublesomeEx · 17/07/2013 18:05

Oh and I wasn't cruel to cut my mother out.

My exH needed to protect ourselves and our children. Had we done it sooner, he might not be my ex!

So I think I've been as tolerant and forgiving as I could have reasonably been expected to be and ultimately felt that, at some point, I deserved to try and live the life I deserved to live.

Oh and the children deserved to be safe.

OhMerGerd · 17/07/2013 18:56

I 'cut' my dad out of our lives for about 17 years. Well he kind of cut himself out really. My childhood was marred by his unreasonable and often violent behaviour. I vowed my children would not experience that. Dad mellowed but was bitter and if we met he would bring up all the past and in a violent abusive manner, so I stopped meeting him. I told him we could meet if he could drop the negativity but he couldnt. However I never stopped loving him ( weird I know) and when he was dying we reconciled but as he lived over seas I only saw him once and spoke on the phone a few times.

I am sad we missed those years. My DC didn't know him. They saw him once or twice but were too young to remember. But as they never witnessed his behaviour they have no bad memories of him, just the myth of him or sanitised version that I have chosen for them to know ( it's not a rosey picture but a cleaner one). I am happy for that, his name and memory into the future will be bland but not bad. I didn't want the bad to carry on generation after generation.

Anyway I am glad we reconciled. I understand more why he was like he was, although he could and should have done something to change his behaviour. He didn't do, so he kind of chose the estrangement. I also know it was his deepest sadness. So deep. Think of the worst grief. Your children dead to you. My sadness is empathy but I know I made the right decision.

When he died some of my siblings did not attend the funeral. I did and did a reading. And I howled and sobbed for him and also for what might have been and also fir his sadness. I still feel sad. But not regret. And I feel I worked through all my feelings, made my peace with him and my feelings. My siblings still struggle, have issues etc, possibly because it is still unresolved and now never can be.

My children have not experienced the stuff I did as a child. Are proud of who they are, their ancestry and family. . They do not regret not knowing him any differently from the granny that died before they were born. He's been 'present' in their lives in the same way through our telling so no gap they need to fill.

Our lives have not been marred by what would have been a bad relationship.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/07/2013 19:24

OP
I'm one of the lucky ones. When I was in my early 20's I told my DF that if he was ever violent to me again I wouldn't come home ever again. He listened and we did rebuild our relationship.

Do you know how hard it was to deal with the fact that this was a man that belted me hard enough in the face on our way to primary school that I got a nose bleed that we had to go home and clean up.

What you saw with you BIL would probably be like someone seeing my final straw issue in my 20's - it might not have looked like much but it it came with a huge backstory.

twinklyfingers · 17/07/2013 19:49

Think I find your last post odd. As if you are trying to categorise types of abuse and draw conclusions about what type of abuse warrants cutting someone out. It seems like you are saying sexual/physical abuse = cut them out, emotional/verbal/mental = forgive and forget. Wouldn't it be great if life was that simple? But it isn't.

I can only assume from this attitude that you have not systematically been lied to, lied about, had others poisoned against you, been insulted in the most hurtful way the abuser can think of, been stolen from, gaslighted, humiliated, and been expected to pick up the pieces when the abuser does this to others. Amongst a myriad of other emotional and mental abuse that can be hurled at someone.

I suppose I should take heart that you obviously have no direct experience on that which you are commenting. But actually your attitude is just making me sad and angry that some people are so very lacking in basic empathy.

SimLondon · 17/07/2013 22:59

Wow - hugs folks, i thought i had a tough as a small kids.

I cut off my father aged erm 19 maybe - he was a violent drunk and i was very very scared of him. He had many chances.

My mother is narcissistic/toxic and im currently thinking about cutting her off.

TigerSwallowTail · 18/07/2013 00:19

From my own experience, cutting someone out is definitely not the easier route. My life would be so much easier if I hadn't cut contact with my mother, but I have a duty to care for and protect my children and to protect my own emotional and psychological well being too and no contact is the only way I can do this. Yabu.

Morloth · 18/07/2013 01:25

Some people don't deserve tolerance and forgiveness IMO.

ArbitraryUsername · 18/07/2013 08:50

I agree Morloth. And for those brought up by emotionally abusive, there's enough guilt and obligation without the rest of the world deciding that you are cruel and selfish for finally saying 'no'.

PurpleRayne · 18/07/2013 11:05

How do you know 'they weren't abusive or anything'?

Why did she run away at 16?

Could you be being manipulated?

wordfactory · 18/07/2013 11:30

My DH finally stopped contact with his parents. Nothing dramatic. No bust up. Just a realisation that they had made him miserable for forty years and he couldn't do a second longer. Tbh OP I felt like you and have cajoled Dh in continuing the relationship for the last fifteen years. I shouldn't have done that.

ZingWidge · 18/07/2013 22:20

OP it would be great if people could forgive and be forgiven regardless of circumstances.
but it's really hard and some people find it impossible

holding a grudge is soul-destroying for all involved, but I think it is worse for the person who is unforgiving.

I have decided to forgive some people, because feeling angry and bitter made me feel awful.

some things I haven't been able to forgive yet fully or at all - and I don't think I will be 100% happy or free of hurt until I do.

so for me it is important to try and get rid of bad feelings by changing my attitude and reaction.

I can't be in control of what others do or say. so my only option is to try and be in control of myself.

it's a fucking hard struggle, but I see no other way for me then to try and try again.

If I can't actually forgive someone just yet I at least try to "forgive them in advance" - as in I tell myself I'll do it, but I need time to vent first.

(Disclaimer: I haven't had a tenth of the awful things that some people have gone through, so maybe it looks like it's easy for me to say these things. I guess maybe it is in comparison.
I don't know.

but I don't find trying to achieve self-control, patience or the process of forgiving easy at all)

ArbitraryUsername · 18/07/2013 22:38

I don't hold a grudge against my father, but I have no intention of ever seeing him again. In fact, months and months go by and I don't give him any thought whatsoever.

This is a consequence of his behaviour.

Cutting someone out doesn't mean you are filled with loathing and sadness, bearing a grudge forever more. It is hard at the time, sure, largely because you are caught up in fear, guilt and obligation. But a decade or so on, and you've moved on with your life. If that upsets the person you had to cut out, so be it.

MyDarlingClementine · 18/07/2013 22:44

It is hard at the time, sure, largely because you are caught up in fear, guilt and obligation Absolutely.

its probably the hardest thing anyone has to do and its usually a last resort. It certainly was in my case with my Dsis. She has had many chances over many decades but she has proven time and time again she actually wishes me harm.

I am not a martyr I cannot carry on with it.

Also, cutting someone out can be a positive thing. If they are truly sorry and love you they will come back somehow.

Both parties can come back together after emotional distance and work together knowing their lives are better with each other in, and therefore work.

Joiningthegang · 18/07/2013 23:07

Yabu
People who get cut out generally deserve it
Me and do not seen our father for 25 years and we have 4 children he has never met
He is a grumpy fucker and its his loss - I hope he never meets his grandchildren as he doesn't deserve them

Joiningthegang · 18/07/2013 23:09

And I agree with arbitrary

I give him not thought whatsoever , I don't hate him - I don't care enough for that

KittensoftPuppydog · 18/07/2013 23:17

It's not easy to cut a family member out of your life. You have to admit to yourself that you will never have that relationship and that is hard, particularly with a parent. You can't replace those people with anyone else.
People who do this will have a very good reason.

PanickedandAnxious · 18/07/2013 23:23

I took the decision a few weeks ago to cut off from my mother, stepfather, biological father and siblings. It took 40 years for me to realise how much an impact on me the scapegoating, psychological, physical and sexual abuse has had and how it has affected the way I feel about myself.

The only cruelty in it is in that they don't care that I have cut them off and never will. My mother, especially, has determined that I am mad and that I should just get over it and move on while still pretending that she did a great 'job'. Now that is cruel.

PanickedandAnxious · 18/07/2013 23:34

And Yes it is the hardest thing I had ever had to do as I deeply love my very toxic, nasty mother, not because of her, but because of my empathetic nature. I am still caught up in the FOG but am hoping with the emotional distance that will lift someday. I worry all the time that she may die and I won't know about it or be there for her but that's something I have to get over.

I actually made the decision after she started calling my beautiful, caring, sensitive DS the same names she used to call me, in front of me (tame ones by her standards)!

middleagefrumptynumpty · 19/07/2013 01:27

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

middleagefrumptynumpty · 19/07/2013 01:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zazzles007 · 19/07/2013 02:19

OP, I'm another one that thinks that you don't know what you are talking about. I have cut out my sister and parents (and thus the rest of my family) because of their crappy, crappy treatment of me.

My sister and I have never had a close relationship because of the sibling rivalry instituted in my family by my grandmother and mother. As teens my sister would openly ignore me in public and we never spoke to each other during school hours.

In my mid-twenties, I was overseas for two years after finishing university. When I returned, I found that my mother and sister had conveniently bundled up all the family's problems and scapegoated/blamed me to 2 of my cousins in my absence. I wasn't even there to defend myself. And of course nothing was said on my return, I only found out about this a year or so later. Needless to say, my sister 'apologised', but effectively said she was going to do nothing to fix the damaged relationship between me and my cousins. That was when I realised that I did not need such an uncaring and unremorseful person in my life.

My mother is a completely nutter I have realised recently, but she is very good at 'appearing' normal. You only have to scratch the surface a little to realise that she is completely nuts. FFS, she and my father believe that "food and money are love", they even said this to me a little while ago. No they are not, only love is love, and no amount of food and money can replace that. After a lifetime of her lies, manipulation, backstabbing, triangulation, lack of love, gaslighting, neglect, lack of guidance etc etc, I have decided that there is nothing positive that she (and my father) bring to this relationship and I have cut them off. I thought about it for a several months before deciding to do this and felt enormous (but misplaced) guilt, which I am now training myself out of.

As some other have said, there was a final straw that broke the camels back. Just before I decided on NC, I had been putting in small boundaries with her, such as "please don't ask me when I am going to go to bed every time I am here, I am a adult who can decide for myself when I go to bed". Her reply was "But I ask your father that question and its ok with him (!)" FFS, although my father and I are very alike, she cannot see that we are 2 different people! She complained that I was 'disrespecting' her, and had a complete strop at me, shouting at me until I broke down in tears. I have not seen her since.

A few months ago my father got her to apologise, but it is in the vein of those apologies that other posters have talked about. She said she "was sorry that we fought", not that she was sorry that she shouted at and upset me. A huge difference - she is absolving herself of any responsibility and effectively still thinks that she is in the right. I have ignored any attempts from them to get in contact with me. The last letter from my father said "this is a small thing that should have been forgiven and forgotten about." In other words, "Suck it up sunshine, we should be able to treat you this way and you should take it because you are our daughter. You have no right to expect any other sort of treatment".

I know that I am a product of mental illness on both sides of the family, and effectively I am the black sheep because I am a rational and psychologically normal person. I can see narcissism in my maternal grandmother, mother and sister, and to a lesser extent in an aunt and her 2 daughters. My father has schizoid personality disorder due to the schizophrenic mother that he grew up with. Three of the women in my father's side of my family committed suicide, probably due to the lack of care and neglect they received as they were growing up. The last one to commit suicide was several years ago, my father's sister (my aunt) who was only 4-5 years older than me, and who I used to play with as a child. At the time, she left a devastated man who loved her dearly and an 18 month old baby. The only way I can protect myself from this level of emotional abuse from people who cannot see what they are doing, is to have no contact with them. I will not be judged as cruel by someone as you, who clearly has no idea. I would give anything to have you subjected to 45 years of emotional abuse from mentally ill individuals, and not come to the same conclusions I have. As they say, walk a mile in my shoes...

Mimishimi · 19/07/2013 03:57

I've practically cut out my grandfather since he told me to "bugger off" in a really nasty way. He had a history of verbal abuse and angry outbursts with my grandmother, mum and aunt a long time ago when I was a child but after he almost completely alienated his entire family (after the death of my grandmother), he did come to his senses, improved dramatically and we used to visit him fairly regularly.

Anyway, a week before, he had been complaining royally about how noone, apart from myself and my kids, ever visits him and whoever does, it isn't often/good enough. That there are no excuses (except most of them live 3+ hours away). That he has a visitor's book in which he records who visited him and for how long, what was talked about etc (that shocked me a bit). In particular, he complained about one brother/SIL of mine who had just had their first baby almost a year ago. The next day, said brother contacted me through Facebook to invite us to the christening of my nephew . I rang up my grandfather and offered to drive him down there which he accepted, seemingly happily. Night before, I ring up to arrange a time to pick him up and he umms and ahhs and tells me he has decided not to go. Not only that, he does his level best to try and get us to not go as well because the weather will be dreadful etc. He got all huffy when I said we were still going but when I told him "Fine, but I don't want you to complain to me again about my brother not visiting you" he shouted "bugger off". I said "excuse me, what did you say?" at which point he said it again and I promptly hung up. So next day we go, have a lovely time and dad told me that he was upset at my brother for not sending him a formal invitation (as in printed on a fancy card etc). Noone received a formal invitation but it was a huge family turnout so obviously everyone rang around those who aren't connected.

Anyway, so we did 'bugger off' for about eight months (was overseas for a few months over the Christmas period). In March, he was hospitalised with what they initially thought was pneumonia but turned out to be anxiety attacks (he's trying to sell his family home of 50+ years with a couple of neighbours as a development site for apartments). So I visited him a couple of times in hospital and at his home. Last time I visited, my aunty was there from interstate to help him pack up etc and she told me someone had to stay for over two hours to qualfy for entry into his vsitors book. So any friends/family who pop in for afternoon tea don't qualify. Then a neighbour came over and talked to him for a while and they must have been talking about me before they came into the drawing room and my grandfather laughingly said to her, right in front of me, "So ,yes, mimishimi used to look very good when she was younger". He has always made comments about my personal appearance which made me feel slightly uncomfortable "your hair looks good today mimishimi, did you brush it?" but this really made me feel quite annoyed and avoided visiting after that. Of course, he'd never apologised for his earlier outburst but I didn't expect it, so decided to put it in the past for kids sake.

Then my brother rang up one day just over a month ago and asked if he could visit. He had driven about 3 hours up to Sydney with his family (now two kids - boy 2 and girl 4 months) just to visit my grandfather, aunty from other side of country and cousin who had just come over. Apparently my grandfather did not say a single word to him or my SIL the whole time and did not speak to/fuss over the children (he fusses over mine ). He sulkily took his sandwiches out to the sunroom when everyone else had their lunch in the dining room. My brother laughed it off saying it was good to see the others anyway but I was livid on his behalf. My grandfather is completely compis mentis so this was really too childish of him. So I really don't make the time for him now, abetted in large part by the fact we don't have a car now due to an accident so what was once a twenty minute drive away is now at least an hour by train.

Maybe I might regret it for the childrens sake though, as admittedly he has been lovely with them over the years. We haven't 'cut him off' officially but have no inclination to visit.

Torrorosso · 19/07/2013 10:34

My parents were abusive physically and emotionally. I cut them off temporarily when I witnessed my dad assaulting my nephew, 5 at the time.

They eventually asked me to make up, and we did. That changed me though and I no longer let them speak to me in the same way - they knew a line had been crossed.

My mum is now dead and I am closer to my dad. He knows not to play games or become offensive because I won't stand for it.

These were very hard things to do, and if they hadn't made the move, we would never have spoken again, but I had to let them know violence against children was unacceptable and was prepared not to speak to them to reinforce it.

What I'm saying is that sometimes cutting off is the most positive, but difficult, thing to do. It's not selfish.

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