To get really quite cross about gender separation starting from newborn?

[ComtessedeFrouFrou]

In M & S today and thought I'd look at their newborn basics for DC1, due in early October. We're not planning to buy masses for DC1 as my sister warned me that we're likely to get given lots, but obviously I don't want to be out shopping straight from the labour ward.

Clothes for 0-2 years, already separated into boys and girls. There are a few bits in white and almost nothing else that could properly be described as being gender neutral. We don't know the sex of the baby but even once he or she is here I am determined that whatever sex the baby turns out to be, they will not spend their lives dressed exclusively in blue or pink (delete as appropriate).

Why is it so hard to find stuff that is neutral? I tend to buy more neutral things for friends with children, even if they are obviously for a boy/girl. For my DC1, I have basically had to tend towards the more boyish end of the spectrum in order to avoid being drowned in sugary pink. I wear blue about 4 days out of 7, so why do little girls have to spend their lives in pink?

Ironically, given everything I have heard about how shit they are in all other respects, Mothercare seems to be one of the few places you can get genuinely gender neutral clothes for very small babies.

[threefeethighandrising]

I tried to buy a baby outfit as a gift with no pink in it for a friend. After 2 hours on our high street I gave in and bought her something with not much pink.

YANBU.

[BetterToLaugh]

I found out what I was having but get what you mean. I used to put DD in plain sleepsuits anyway as I think newborns look weird covered in logos and pictures.

Some baby clothes are just bizzare,the whole tractor/car thing is weird and why do newborn/bay girls clothes always have a rabbit on?

I wish I could find packs of plain grey marl sleepsuits as I love grey and they're more practical than white.

[MrsMook]

Let DS1 loose in the library and he will always pick a book based on transport/ emergency vehicles.

Last summer we went to Ireland and spent a lot of time on rural backroads during harvest time, at 18ish months, he thought it was amazing each time we got stuck behind a tractor. It took a couple of days to twig what a "doe-gar!" was.

He's now hit a stage of finding wheels incredibly fascinating. There's great excitement every time he notices something going round or is a circle. Definately a development stage, and not a social construct from me!

Not that DS2 (3m) has any kind of preference on his clothes yet (other than can I suck it) :grin:

[MrsOakenshield]

isn't it up to the individual adult as to whether they buy into it or not? A shop doesn't make that decision for me, they merely present the clothes in a certain way. Buy whatever you want, it's only an issue if you make it one.

[exoticfruits]

And if you don't buy pink they won't stock it in such huge quantities.
What is sold is always supply and demand.

[exoticfruits]

Shops now sell masses of Halloween stuff- they would stop if people didn't buy it.

[mrsjay]

I am always baffled at these sort of threads what is wrong with gender they cant have a big mishmash of clothes in a shop can they should they have just BABY CHILD then men and women.

[HazleNutt]

Why can't shops have just "baby" sections? Just vests, trousers, shirts etc without telling us that this babygro should only be worn by boy/girl babies.
like here for example:
polarnopyret.co.uk/

[Luxnuova]

YANBU. I completely agree. There is definitely some great gender-neutral or non-specific clothing out there. As other posters have pointed out, Next, H&M, PoP, John Lewis etc do have great options that would suit either gender. I have no problem dressing my DD in dresses, either. But I do have a rabid aversion to the pepto bismol princess pink, and the awful division of diggers/pirates/dinosaurs vs cats/cuteness/fairies. Far more disturbing when you see its creep into toy marketing for later ages, and characterisation of gender behaviour there. For all those who say, 'just buy what you like', yes, that's fine, but there is also the underlying affect it has via peer groups, advertising, etc. It's not unreasonable to find it disturbing.

FWIW, Freyasnow, my 19mo DD is absolutely obsessed with diggers. No reverse gender stereotype engineering on our part, and not a huge proliferation of them in our neighbourhood. She just has a hand-me-down "Machines" book and it took off from there. She also loves playing with baby dolls and tea sets, as do most of her boy compatriots at that age.

[MrsOakenshield]

oh for goodness' sake! Make your own choices! After all, if you saw a 'man's' shirt you like, would you not buy it because M&S said it was for men only (which they aren't, of course)? Or would you think, ooh, I like that, I'll buy it? Sorry, but some people are coming across as being incapable of thinking for themselves.

And pink is just a bloody colour, same as blue, green, purple and orange. DD wears all the colours of the rainbow, including pink - her favourite colour is navy blue. And black.

[HazleNutt]

If everybody just buys what they like anyway, why are you then so fiercely supporting that shops divide clothes by gender? It does not make shopping easier if you have to go search for PJs in 2 separate departments, for baby boys and baby girls, instead of just checking one section where all PJs are.

[mrsjay]

I am not supporting anything Hazel and baby departments are not really that huge that you need to trek miles, I never ever found getting girls clothes when mine were babies it really wasn't an effort to find non frilly clothes and plain baby gros

[DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper]

If pink is 'just a colour' then why do you never see seas of, say, orange or yellow in the girls' section? You don't. You only ever see a sea of pink.

[silverten]

Well there is plenty of variety out there as far as colour goes, if you're prepared to look for it- in clothes at least. Most of my DD's stuff has been 'boys' things, purely because I preferred the look of them to the ubiquitous pink frilly stuff, and it's been more practical for grubbing about in the dirt.

I was trying to buy her some trainers for walking on rough ground in the other week though- didn't want to spend big bucks as she'll grow out of them in a few months and there's no point getting anything really posh. I just wanted something fairly sturdy with a stiff-ish sole and decent grip. I went to Brantano as I'd got the impression that there was a fairly good range there, which was true- about twenty or so styles each in 'girls' or 'boys' varieties.

Predictably the girl's stuff was pink, purple and white and had lots of glitter and flowers on them, personally I thought they looked horrible but wasn't about to fall out with DD over that as long as they were decent shoes. Equally predictably the boy's stuff was sludgy coloured with JCBs on them- not my first choice but again, if they were suitable shoes I'd go with them. It was all about the function for that pair of shoes.

However, without fail, all the 'girls' trainers were actually unsuitable for doing much active running/jumping/climbing in- flimsy fastenings, soft material, thin slippy soles with no grips.... The 'boys' trainers were quite rufty-tufty with thick soles, supportive uppers and nicely adjustable fastenings- so you could actually jump and run about in them safely, unlike in the 'girls' versions. Yes, DD is wearing 'boys' trainers when she goes hill-walking- at the cost of a loooooong conversation with her in the shop about what the shoes were actually for.

It would appear that little girls aren't meant to do anything particularly active.....maybe I should have sent her to ballet instead?

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Not worth getting upset about, IMO.

[sleepdodger]

Gap
Sainos
Next

[ICBINEG]

fucks me right off...

Are their separate aisles for toys for ethnic minorities? Or chavs? Or middle class kids? I am sure there is just as much segregation over clothes and toys between these groups as there is for gender...but no. It isn't socially acceptable to be racist in your marketing...but sexist is juuust fine!

[Wbdn28]

YANBU. Back in the 70s children wore a much wider variety of colours and there wasn't a sea of pink/blue. Things are definitely more polarised now.

[Nicknamegrief]

Personally I don't really care if they separate them into boys/girls clothes. They separate it into men's/women's. In my opinion it makes it easier for shopping.

I also think that if you are open minded enough it doesn't really matter how your children are dressed but how you interact and play with them over ride it. While saying that I am a SAHM and my husband is an army officer and while my children meet female members of the forces there are a lot less of them around.

My daughter (3) is a very girly dresser. She suits pink (gorgeous strawberry blonde hair) and other colours her wardrobe is a rainbow but she favours dresses/skirts and leggings. I never thought I would have so many girly clothes but after two boys and friend who had twin girls and a lot of boden/monsoon handy downs I really enjoyed it. She is however a wonderful mix of stereotypes. She is rough and tumble, full of adventure and fearless in the park. She isn't into babies but loves her kitchen and soft toys.

Her closest in age to her brother (6) refuses to wear anything he considers 'girly' pink, lilac, cord trousers. He won't eat a cake if it has pink icing or drink strawberry milkshakes. He loves babies, rough and tumble, Lego and spent yesterday doing 'ballet classes' with his sister (pretend play) and cooking in her kitchen.

I buy what I like, afford and what suits my children.

[Nicknamegrief]

Very much liked the 'little bird' range at Mothercare and my daughter has a few of those 'boys' t'shirts and PJs.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

I love 'Little Bird' by Mothercare. Sadly only discovered it as DD1 reached the top of the age range and DD2 mostly wears hand me downs. Lovely 70s inspired gender neutrals, and they do online too.

H&M good for bright stuff.

[HazleNutt]

It's like suddenly separating baby food aisle into baby girl and baby boy food ones, putting all carrot based foods into baby boy aisle in blue jars and all apple food to baby girl food aisle, in pink jars.
if someone questioned it I'm sure we would also have plenty of people telling us that it's not an issue, you can still buy what you like, can't you think for yourself and how hard is it to go and check the other aisle as well? And no, not that hard, but it just does not make sense.

[MrsOakenshield]

I don't think that analogy quite works, because whilst boys and girls, men and women, eat the same foods, that is not true of clothing. And some people like to dress their babies in 'proper' clothes, such as dresses or trousers, from birth because they enjoy wrestling a tiny newborn into awkward garments, so if that's the case it makes sense, as with adult clothing, to separate into boys and girls.

I notice that it's always parents of girls who get the most upset about this - is that because we are worried about our daughters become too 'girly', whereas parents of boys are not so concerned about their sons being 'boyish'? And that there's something wrong with being 'girly'? DD is all about dresses at the mo (which makes sense as they are light and airy in this heat), in a variety of colours, and seems to spend all day at nursery playing mummies and babies with her Best Friend. Should I be concerned? (I'm not.)

I actually think boys clothing is far more restrictive, in terms of colour, than girls - I rarely seem to see boys in anything except blue, green, brown or grey - occasionally a bit of orange or red. And I have never seen a boy (certainly a baby or toddler) wearing pink or purple.

[MrsOakenshield]

just noticed a lack of apostrophes there, sorry.

[Bonsoir]

I mostly dressed DD in white when she was a newborn and never had any difficulty finding plain white babygros (three-packs in the now defunct Woolworths for very little money) and plain white stretchy velveteen leggings etc.