To get really quite cross about gender separation starting from newborn?

[ComtessedeFrouFrou]

In M & S today and thought I'd look at their newborn basics for DC1, due in early October. We're not planning to buy masses for DC1 as my sister warned me that we're likely to get given lots, but obviously I don't want to be out shopping straight from the labour ward.

Clothes for 0-2 years, already separated into boys and girls. There are a few bits in white and almost nothing else that could properly be described as being gender neutral. We don't know the sex of the baby but even once he or she is here I am determined that whatever sex the baby turns out to be, they will not spend their lives dressed exclusively in blue or pink (delete as appropriate).

Why is it so hard to find stuff that is neutral? I tend to buy more neutral things for friends with children, even if they are obviously for a boy/girl. For my DC1, I have basically had to tend towards the more boyish end of the spectrum in order to avoid being drowned in sugary pink. I wear blue about 4 days out of 7, so why do little girls have to spend their lives in pink?

Ironically, given everything I have heard about how shit they are in all other respects, Mothercare seems to be one of the few places you can get genuinely gender neutral clothes for very small babies.

[laeiou]

Yanbu. There's no physical difference between girl and boy baby bodies that justify them having separate wardrobes. I'm pretty sure that pre-1980s we all wore hand-me-downs with no thought as to whether they were "gender appropriate". My 2yo boy always runs to the girls shoes in Clarks, then the assistant tries to persuade him that the sludge brown or navy blue are nice too. Shoes are rarely marketed as gender neutral, although Jojo canvas sandshoes are all shown together online (red, navy, pink, yellow). Clarks is depressing- no cream / beige / grey trainers, it's all just girls or just boys. Oh and girls should not even drink from a blue cup, apparently. Pink cups and cutlery for girls.

All this "I'm fucking trouble me", guns / knives on sleepsuits etc for baby boys is disgusting.(Slight exaggeration, but not much)

Once you start noticing the divide it's impossible to overlook. E.g. the elc catalogue- girls looking on while boys are active. The clothes follow this idea- action pictures for boys and imaginative fairies etc for girls. And why are cats on girls' clothing while dogs are on boys?

After age 1 it can be difficult to find boy clothes that aren't black / navy / dark brown etc, or mini versions of what dad wears. My 2 yo likes tops with pictures of animals etc on, or bold and bright colours, children's clothes. He wears a lot from sainsbury and next. The Little Bird range in mothercare is good too. Jojo too.

[Empress77]

YANBU. I hate all the gender nonsense of boys being blue and girls wearing pink. Im a girl and have far more blue clothes than pink clothes. People are horrified that I will buy pink for my boy in case people mistake him for a girl. But its just a colour. I am choosing clothes that I like for him - such as a black lion item, a blue seaside item, and a pink mouse item as examples - Ill avoid the boring cars and tractors and dinasours and just choose whatever I think is cute no matter the colour. At what point in history did pink and blue become a defining gender division, its silly.

[CruCru]

One place I do like is Loveitloveitloveit. Expensive though.

[5madthings]

Yanbu but if you look around you can find nice stuff.

H&m and next often have a rainbow range.

POP is good look for it second hand to save money. Boden, scandinavian stuff. Frugi etc.

Also if you are concerned re gender stereityoing join the lettoysbetoys campaign. Origionated on mnet its a campaign to stop the genderstereotyping of toys. Find on fb :)

[MommyBird]

I feel your pain!
We bought lots of sleepsuits/vests etcetc in white and bought Dylon dyes (:

[FannyMcNally]

But you've only got to look at gift websites that divide up into 'gifts for him' and 'gifts for her' and realise it never stops! Days out for 'him' include driving, speedboat, flying etc. 'Her' days are spa, shopping, tea for two etc.

[NightScentedStock]

OP there is a company called tootsamacginty online that, bar a few dresses, sell lovely unisex funky clothes. I have bought some lovely colourful bits from there for my boys.

[mrsravelstein]

i've been being baffled by these threads on mn for years. there are tons of non pink girls clothes out there in every single kids' clothes shop from sainsburys TU upwards. in fact, since my dd ONLY wants to wear pink, i often despair of all the beautiful clothes i can't buy her. truly there must be a lot of people who are very bad at shopping out there, or who are so politicised about not putting their daughters in pink that they refuse to accept the reality.

[exoticfruits]

I would say that it was wanted by parents. I had to come off the thread on gender selection- posters wanted to choose the gender as if a child was a possession- and it all down to gender stereotypes - the expectations were already there and they weren't even pregnant!

[exoticfruits]

If people didn't want it then they wouldn't produce it!

[Nancyclancy]

My dd looks lovely in blue and yellow. So I buy lots of plain tops in a variety of colours and personalise them with my sewing machine! (Which I've only learnt to use a few months ago!
She's got a jumpsuit made from the cowboy fabric by Cath Kidston with a matching bandana and she looks really cute in!

[noblegiraffe]

I was a bit worried that my DD (5 month) would only end up in pink stuff, but it's actually really easy to dress her in different colours.

My DS (3) also has a range of bright colourful clothes and I've never been forced to purchase anything suggesting he's naughty, there have always been other more palatable options.

We mainly shop at ASDA and Sainsbury's, with the occasional venture into Next.

Yes there is plenty of pink stuff around, but it's certainly not the only option.

[Fakebook]

You don't HAVE to buy the pink clothes for girls and blue clothes for boys though do you?

Mountain/molehill.

[Madmum24]

People are horrified that I will buy pink for my boy in case people mistake him for a girl. But its just a colour.

Exactly, it is just a colour, even on girls. I see this quite a lot on natural parenting forums, people huffing and puffing about their IL's buying a pink t-shirt for their dd "gasp" but it would be fine if it was for a boy?

I don't think that putting different coloured clothes on a newborn is treating them differently, perhaps a newborn uniform (gender neutral of course) should be introduced to counteract any gender generalizations?

It is almost as if there is something wrong with a girl liking pink.

[crazylady9876]

Go to h&m they have loads DS1 was basically a walking advert for them for the first 6 months and they wash very well and seem to last forever there sizes are very generous as well and good priced DONT do mothercare over priced go bobbly after a few washers and just generally shite

[YummyYummyYum]

I hate the 'Here comes Trouble' and related crap aimed at boys. I like dinosaurs and elephants.

[slightlysoupstained]

Madmum did you not spot the poster earlier talking about how differently strangers reacted to her son when he was in pink frilly handmedowns vs more traditionally boyish gear? It does make a difference.

I think posters saying "I don't see it" probably haven't looked at some shops - closest place to me is a big Asda and their baby clothes (at least that they stock locally) are incredibly gender-segregated, I've spent an hour in there looking for anything DS's size that wasn't sugar pink, baby blue, and the older clothes are horrible dull colours or violent pink glitterfest. If that was your only local option, you'd be stuffed if you wanted a nice green or red top, for instance. If your closest place was H&M, you'd be justified in wondering what the fuss was about.

Second the plug earlier for Let Toys Be Toys.

[lozster]

Totally agree. My baby boy is due in 10 days and he has a well stocked wardrobe because I knew the sex from 16 weeks. Otherwise he would have one or two beige or white outfits. I see precious little suitable for boys and girls in any of the shops mentioned. The flood of pink is just depressing.

[HorizontalRunningOnly]

I find as well that's shops seem over run with clothes for girls and the clothes hit able for boys is much smaller and far less choice of shoes etc as well!

[foreverondiet]

Tbh I am less bothered by clothes and more bothered by toys in blue and pink. I have bought dd boys bikes each time so DS1 (and ds2) can have it have struggled each time to find (not ridiculously expensive) boys bike in unisex colours....for newborns dressed them in plain white babygros which are unisex.

[lozster]

Just looked at the toots site and that is how a remember kids clothes in the 70s and 80s - genuinely unisex as most people needed the maximum wear out of them as they were so expensive. The whole pink thing is a marketing con to get you to buy twice.

[FreyaSnow]

I have no issue with the vast majority of girls clothes, but I did not want my child of either gender to wear clothes that are reminiscent of war (like khaki), violent animals (most dinosaurs), machinery or vehicles.

Although that does rule out a lot of boys clothes, it is still possible to buy boys' clothes and gender neutral clothes with pictures of natural things on them - beaches, rabbits, deer, fish, trees etc from mainstream shops.

So the choices are there to not dress your son in items reminiscent of violence or commerce from high street shops without him having to wear a fairy dress instead. But for some reason people are far more stressed out by people putting girls in pink than they are by small boys wearing soldier trousers and a tshirt with a close up of the teeth of a man eating shark on the front.

[themaltesecat]

My daughter loves her "boys'" pyjamas from Primark, decorated with monkeys and in lovely Luton Town FC colours (orange, navy and white).

Now she is swanning around in a very, very traditional floral summer dress and she is equally delighted.

[thegreylady]

when I was buying for dgc I used a catalogue called [I think] Green Baby which had beautiful clothes in naural fabrics and neutral colours.I also second Polarn o Pyret which I found in Kendals [HoF] in Manchester.

[gottogetbusy]

Agree about the marketing con.

It's a very very convenient thing for the clothes retailers if people feel even slightly uncomfortable about reusing an item bought for a boy for a second child who is a girl and vice versa.

It means you will then buy twice as many things, or if not twice as many, at least a few more.

So they are clearly incentivised to polarise a lot of baby clothes just enough to put people off reuse (and just do a small number of more general clothes to satisfy the section of the market who will actually leave their shop without buying rather than buy yet another pink or tractor top).

Adults get a much fuller range of styles and colours because there's no question of our clothes being handed down as an alternative to more being bought. Gender stereotyping of adult clothes doesn't work as well for creating more purchases - instead we have fashion for that - clothes become unwearable because they're too much past the current fashion and people buy more for that reason.