To get really quite cross about gender separation starting from newborn?

[ComtessedeFrouFrou]

In M & S today and thought I'd look at their newborn basics for DC1, due in early October. We're not planning to buy masses for DC1 as my sister warned me that we're likely to get given lots, but obviously I don't want to be out shopping straight from the labour ward.

Clothes for 0-2 years, already separated into boys and girls. There are a few bits in white and almost nothing else that could properly be described as being gender neutral. We don't know the sex of the baby but even once he or she is here I am determined that whatever sex the baby turns out to be, they will not spend their lives dressed exclusively in blue or pink (delete as appropriate).

Why is it so hard to find stuff that is neutral? I tend to buy more neutral things for friends with children, even if they are obviously for a boy/girl. For my DC1, I have basically had to tend towards the more boyish end of the spectrum in order to avoid being drowned in sugary pink. I wear blue about 4 days out of 7, so why do little girls have to spend their lives in pink?

Ironically, given everything I have heard about how shit they are in all other respects, Mothercare seems to be one of the few places you can get genuinely gender neutral clothes for very small babies.

[jessieagain]

I had an interesting moment a few weeks ago when a woman called my 2year old ds a girl. He was wearing grey tracksuit bottoms, brown/red/blue trainers and a grey, white and brown striped top with a bear on the front .

Yabu I don't really think it is a problem. Parents can chose to dress their children as they like and there is plenty to choose from. If the styles you like are too expensive try ebay.

Obviously pink sells for girls which is why there is so much of it. I am not a big fan of dressing my son in the dull "old-man" style clothes as I prefer bright colours, but I do dress him in clothes with dinosaurs, trucks and Thomas on them as that is what he likes to wear, (although some people here have also criticised this)

Fwiw my son was in neutrals when he was a newborn. We inherited them all from friends' dds.

[OxfordToLondoner]

YANBU. I've been given so many bloody baby pink clothes for my newborn DD it's ridiculous, especially as you'd think people who know me would know that i can't stand it.

In hospital, one midwife assumed that we didn't know what we were having, as we'd brought white clothes (as if it's really unusual not to put them in pink). Another one told me that I should cut my DS's hair....seriously...when i was having a weepy post birth anxiety moment, JUST what i needed!

It is easy to get non vomit inducing clothing, but the high street doesn't make it easy. If you've got the kind of cash to shop from Nordic Kids, No Added Sugar, Lula Sapphire et al then that's great, but not everyone does.

Ninilegs 5 year old DS has shoulder length curls, and despite facially looking (and behaving) in a very gender stereotypically manner, people are always confusing him for a girl. It's weird how people can't seen beyond the clothes or hair.

[ninilegsintheair]

YANBU at all OP. I was the same with my DD when she was a baby - everyone bought her pink. I put her in any colour I choose, she looks gorgeous in bright primary red for example. We didn't find out her gender before birth and finding neutral clothes was tough - white is irritating as a colour as newborns are sick/poo a lot and it ruins the colour quickly. I aimed for green and yellow but finding those colours was hard.

DD's now 2 1/2, and obsessed with trains. She has a lot of 'boys' clothes as a result. I've lost count of the times she's been called a boy despite having long hair and (imo) looking quite feminine in her facial features. People see the colours of the clothes and make snap judgements based on pink = girl, any other colour = boy.

This is not 'something about nothing' at all.

[missmargot]

I'm 16 weeks pregnant and we aren't planning on finding out the sex of the baby. Even though I know it's early to be buying anything I've not be able to resist looking at baby clothes, especially during the sales. I was really surprised at how little choice there is for gender neutral clothes and how many of the baby clothes out there are pink and blue.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of pink for girls, blue for boys etc and a pair of t shirts I saw saying (in pink) 'Pretty Like Mummy' and (in blue) 'Clever Like Daddy' gave me the rage.

I didn't expect something like this to bother me as much as it has done, but no OP YANBU.

[moustachio]

I was a 90's baby and every photo from my childhood i have fucking ridiculous flowery poofy dresses on. Not necessarilly pink though.

[moustachio]

I never count the number for/against aibu's as a true representation though OP. It's obvious that if someone has an opinion about something, they'll post. Those who don't care about gender specifics won't bother clicking on the thread, just saying. You should look at the quality of arguments instead.

I didn't mean to be rude but I do think you are making something out of nothing.

[ComtessedeFrouFrou]

It's interesting that those of you who disagree think that I am either making something out of nothing or that I simply haven't looked very hard.

And yet I would estimate (I haven't counted) that at least two thirds, if not three quarters of posters agree and either didn't want to know the sex or object to gender separation on principle.

I appreciate that I am in the minority these days in not wanting to know the sex of my unborn baby, but what happened to choice? Even once DC1 arrives, I don't want my daughters to grow up looking like I've dipped them in glue and let them loose in a sequin factory. I'm less bothered about diggers and dinosaurs but I strongly object to the "blokeification" of little boys. I saw a boy in John Lewis the other day of about 4. He was wearing a fan navy and cream stripy jumper and a bright yellow rain mac. He looked awesome.

[VinegarDrinker]

I took Dd (2 weeks) into the school DH works in today to show her off. She was wearing a Sainsburys vest - green with stars. Almost every single child assumed she was a boy. These are primary aged kids. Pretty depressing.

[LittleBearPad]

OP I didn't know DD was going to be a girl and YANBU at all. We went for neutrals ( white, cream etc) and the woman in Mamas and Papas commented that clearly we hadn't found out what we were having. I loved the plain white babygros most I think. Post-birth out flat looked like there'd been a pink tsunami. Happily it suited DD but I do try to buy her other colours as gifts are usually pink. My mum thinks I over think it but I never wore really pink when a baby in the 70s.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Stormy - I had that too, although I don't think that it's because white is considered masculine. I think it's because we use male as a default. Think about talking about animals to the kids- it is really a conscious thing not to say he every time. So people so no gender indication on a baby and often default in just the same way.

FWIW, I never cared and, if I didn't think that the conversation was going any further, didn't set them right. People get quite upset if you correct them I found. I had a boy's name I gave them and everything if they unexpectedly kept chatting.

[Summerblaze]

There are bloody loads of gender neutral stuff out there. Obviously there are pink and blue things too as lots of people want to dress their babies in those colours too.

Think sometimes it is just something for people to get up in arms about. I wanted a walker for dd. There was a pink one and a multicoloured one. I bought the multicoloured one as it was the nicest and would do for subsequent dc's.

A few weeks later I had a similar choice to make and went for the pink as I preferred it. I have 3 dc and it has never been a problem. DD's favourite colour is blue and has been for ages. Never have a problem finding things for her.

Don't think you are looking very hard.

[StormyBrid]

It seems even white isn't gender neutral these days either.

When DD was about a week old, I took her with me to the local shops. Many shop staff came round the counter to look and coo. One asked "Boy or girl?" All the others assumed a boy - "Isn't he lovely?" and so on. By the fifth shop I'd got rather annoyed, and asked the next one (in a friendly way) if my daughter looked particularly masculine. "It's because she's not wearing any pink," the woman explained.

She wasn't wearing any blue either. White from head to toe.

[JoInScotland]

It gets harder and harder to find "unisex" yet still "cute" things the older they get. After age 2, for example, most clothes either have trucks/monsters/pirates/skulls/slogans and come in grey, black, bilge, sludge, beige or navy.... the other ones have flowers/fairies/princesses/girls and come in pink or if you are lucky pink/purple, pink/green, pink/yellow, etc.

It really is hard to find clothes that are just yellow. Or just red. Or just green. I found a place that sells polo shirts (I think it really is for schoolwear) and bought a shirt in every bright colour for my son this summer. He regularly get compliments and I am asked where I found them! Ebay! Or I buy plain white t-shirts and applique shapes on myself - whatever he is into, like penguins at the moment.

But I have to work at it, I really do. It isn't there on the high street, on a rack. I have to go out of my way and spend more money and time in order to dress my child in something that doesn't scream "stereotypical boy".

[ljny]

And if you don't buy pink they won't stock it in such huge quantities.

Not so simple. Decades ago, there really was more choice (pastel yellows and greens, bright primary). And yes, the categories were Baby and Toddler. With an additional section of pink, frills, whatever.

Nowadays, even prams and carseats are divided into 'Girl' and 'Boy'.

It's simple - the more manufacturers subdivide baby gear, the more people will buy - as nowadays, too many feel they can't hand down baby girls' clothes to a baby boy, or vice versa.

Result: more sales.

[JoInScotland]

My son loves purple, and I currently am taking the "puffs" out of the sleeves. One is "I am 3" (he is 3 1/2) and has 3 mice - great - and three buttons. But puffy sleeves. Another has a cat - he loves cats. Another has children around the world in different costumes. They all have puffy sleeves. Thank heavens for a seam ripper and a serger sewing machine!

I didn't expect him to like any particular thing. He likes cats, because we have two of them (I suppose). He loves flowers, because he likes helping in the garden. We make fairy gardens out of shells, moss, stones - he likes fairies. I note some folks say their boys run to the cars and dinosaurs when in a toy store or library - mine runs to the flowers and fairies. You can see other people's eyebrows shoot up. Like he's gay at 3, and that all gays like flowers, and that gay = bad.

I agree with other people saying that a girl can put on a Bob the Builder costume, no problem. A boy puts on a tutu, suddenly there's a problem.

[ComtessedeFrouFrou]

Pobble the ones with elephants (really bright red and turquoise?) are the ones I have bought from Sainsburys

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

We didn't find out the sex of our child and didn't have any problems buying white/yellow/green baby gros and vests.

Sainsburys have some lovely babygros at the moment. The ones with elephants are particularly cute.

I have a friend who dresses her baby DD only ever in pink, I find it a bit strange. I'm not a very girly girl.

[MrsMook]

Oh and DS2 wore a very feminine hat yesterday, pink broderie anglaise with flower to trim- was visiting a friend and we went for an unexpected walk so he borrowed one of her DD's. I didn't expect him to look so fresh and glowy in pink! He's only 13wks, so just looked like a cute baby in a white outfit and pink hat, not too much of a gender bending mission. Mistaken gender identity Vs sunburn... I know which is healthier!

I'd still buy things like cars/ trainsets for a girl. I facilitate DS's transport interest, but he isn't pigeon holed into it. He's got lots of neutral basic toys, as well as domestic things. Our toy collection would look very similar if he had been a girl. Probably less cars- but they were mainly hand-me-downs from older cousins/ friends (I particularly love the orange Escort with 1978 copyright on the bottom ) There would be more dolls accesories, but unfortunately they only seem to be avaliable in vom pink (certainly at the cheap end of the market, and I'm not paying extra to get something less über girly when DS's interest in them is lower.

[ceeveebee]

I had b/g twins and for the first few months of their lives they shared their clothes - I had loads of babygros in neutral colours - white, yellow, red etc, but also quite a few in blue and pink, they just got put in whatever came out of the drawer first. It's really not hard to find gender-neutral clothes, all the major chains that OP mentions have them online at least if not in store.

[MrsMook]

DS has a baby grow with pink stars. Wasn't quite what I expected as I ordered online, and thought it was going to be much deeperin colour, not neon from the picture. Still taught enough boys who wear neon pink!

I loved his (H&M) purple skinny cords. Unfortunately most "girls" garments are defined not only by colour but by trimmings. It was unusual that these were devoid of frills, embroidered flowers etc which tend to stop mums of boys venturing in the girls department.

I was trying to get some yellow for DS1 at some point. Having failed to find anything inspiring in the boys section of Mothercare, I spotted a pack of yellow and blue vests on the wall in girls. Lovely shades, went up to investigate... Flowers.

Girls things are often impractical for being active and outside and the pale colours prone to permanent marking from grubby knees. Some shades of pink are just vom (OK, maybe I'm thinking of the strawberry bootlace overindulgence incident. DM never could work out why it was so pink...)
Boys things are very restricted and monotonous.
There's lots of colours that are underused in children's clothing regardless of gender.

If DS2 had been a girl, I was planning on re-using a lot of DS1's clothes and feminising with some more girly vests and accessories. Yes, I'd buy some prettier things too, but certainly for the crawling stage, DS's dungees would do very well.

[Jengnr]

Tesco have loads of lovely babygros in all kinds of colours.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

I looked at the range of baby clothes (0-18m) in Morrison's today and although the colours are not pink/blue there is definite gender division.

Girl things have puffy sleeves or scalloped edges or flower-shaped buttons.

Anyway I still recommend them but looking closer has been a bit

[slightlysoupstained]

" a random man in a shop told her she was too pretty to play with dinosaurs...wtf?!!"

[5madthings]

Yes we can buy what we want but does all reinforce gender stereotypes and young children pick up on this. Its the same with toys as well and its bloody annoying.

My dd loves dinosaurs but in order to get her clothes with dinosaurs on I has to buy boys clothes. This is fine and I don't care but as she gets older she may well do. And yes to others making comment, a random man in a shop told her she was too pretty to play with dinosaurs...wtf?!! And my mil will consistently ignore her when she is playing with the dinosaurs and ask her to fetch a doll/tea set etc. Just reinforcing stereotypes.

People say its not a big deal but it has a real affect on our children, and the crazy thing is that as women have been getting more equality and in an age where discrimination is not OK we are actually modeling the reverse to children and its not a good message for them. Its also relatively recent esp with the toy market, its got much worse since I had ds1 (14). But go back to when I was little and it wasn't as bad.


And others have mentioned how baby clothes didn't used to be gendered. Plus pink used to be seen as a boys col our and blue for girls... It has been exploited by marketing as a way to make more money.