The great british menu - food poverty... AIBU?

[Bogeyface]

I hate myself for thinking this but, AIBU to think that Lady Whatsername who said in the 90's that the reason poor people couldnt manage on benefits was because they lacked the ability to cook good simple nutritious meals, may have had a point? The way she said it was totally U and she was very sneery, but I cant help thinking that there might be a grain of truth in it.

Of the three families I have just seen in this program I saw what 2 of them ate in a day. one was a mother and daughter who's only meal of the day was a microwave burger each costing £1 each, and the other was a family where the children had fish fingers or nuggets and oven chips, while the parents had tinned veg.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

The second family, again, for the price of nuggets, fish fingers and oven chips they could make a spag bol using basics ingredients that would feed them all well.

RAther than focussing on the cost of food, which is only going to rise, surely it would be better to focus on educating people who eat badly because the food they choose is more expensive than cheaper, healthier alternatives that require a bit of cooking knowledge?

The thread is about food Tewi - and one program in particular. Of course that is going to be the main topic of discussion.

Diamond, well it's hardly going to be as interesting as food you can make on a much larger budget. I think the idea is simply to have enough nutritious food to keep you healthy - even if it is a bit boring/bland.

Argh!

I have nothing against food tips! But the AIBU was about whether you could have a healthy diet if you made different choices with the budget - the answer is it depends, yes? Some tips might be useful to some people, but many aren't, because they overlook additional costs of taking that option.

But there is no value in having a go at people with few options, instead of those who have more power over what options the poor in this country have and banging on about how our grandparents survived is barely any use to anyone.

If it costs £25 10 years ago it will be a lot more than that now.

There is nothing wrong with looking for short term solutions like food banks, economical recipies and bulk buy ideas as long as long term solutions are not completely forgotten.

Cheap nutritious food can be tasty but we all have different tastes, some like bland tasting food, many of the older generation grew up with soggy vegetables and meat and two veg type meals, I think the younger generation have experienced a wider range of flavours, years ago chilli, lasagne, bolognaise and tikka masala were considered exotic and now they are considered standard foods.

This thread has started some great debates, I hope it continues with part two, surely short term and long term ideas are both welcome?

If the thread is just about the program, how can anyone justify that a man who has worked all his life and is now retired, living in a two room house with his bed in the lounge and he has to make a packet of soup last two days because that is all he can afford?

that has nothing to do with not being able to cook or budget, it's to do with having to eat like that. Having to buy value supernoodles at the end of the month because that is basically IT.

well it was a two room flat really, I meant home rather than house

Bogey, yes there is the odd protest in big cities. There are occasional ones in Glasgow, for, instance, but that's no use when you can't travel. Years ago, when I was an active protester, there were organised groups locally, local protests and coaches running to the big rallies in the city. This used to be a v. militant area with an active political life and tons of positive campaigning, now there is nothing, really. People just seem to accept that they can't change things.

I think a lot of it mainly comes from generations of living in poverty (my area tops the Scottish multiple deprivations index) and all the hope being crushed out people. There is no expectation of a better life and a kind of sense of powerlessness in the grand scheme of things. There are no jobs, schools are failing, housing is awful, drug and alcohol abuse is rife, even if you are in paid employment wages are so much lower here than other places... everything combines into a kind of collective depression.

I can't really understand all the violence and rioting that goes on a protests nowadays, either. I know some people are just looking for an excuse to cause trouble and are probably not even really interested in the "cause", but violence does no one any good and certainly doesn't help further whatever cause you are protesting about.

I've used Marguerite Paton's books as well. They are really good and, if you're careful, you can have a good, balanced diet, but the recipes are not very exciting, which doesn't bother us much, but if you're used to a more expensive and varied way of eating, you might take a while to adjust.

Bumbley, we should all be grateful for what we have and I think most people are, but we are not in some kind of race to the bottom. it's outrageous that anyone, anywhere in the world has to go hungry and that kids die from lack of food and clean water. That's one of the reasons that I volunteer with Christian Aid, as well as run the foodbank. But, I don't think that comparisons with scary countries or with previous generations help much with the very real situations people find themselves in here and now.

We are very lucky in having access to the NHS, education for all children, inside, flushing toilets, clean water etc. But none of that makes not being able to adequately feed your family any easier to cope with or any less shocking and intolerable.

How many households are in food poverty?

Now if someone from each family caught a fish once a week, how long would the fresh water fish stocks last?

I'm not sure why you think I think we should be in a race to the bottom. I agree that it is outrageous that people are dying from lack of food and clean water.

Today is benefits day, hurrah. I have £124 to last a fortnight, for everything except rent. Here is the chicken risotto I made on Sunday. I've been eating it for every meal since then, except yesterday when I spent my last pound on Scotch eggs and bananas. I had to save the pound in case the electricity ran out, it's down to 24p.

Yes, it's a nice risotto. I'm a good cook.
But, really, do you think this is all right?

£124 is so little really. £62 a week to cover everything - gas, electricity, water, toilet rolls, toothpaste, food. I'm sure someone will claim it's doable, and yes I suppose it is if you're only on benefits for a few weeks and that's all you have to spend it on, but any longer than a few weeks and you're screwed. What about being able to put a little by for clothes and shoes (they don't last forever - especially when you have to buy cheaper, poor-quality ones). What if your cooker/fridge/washing machine breaks down (or should you be spending some of that £62 at the laundrette and the costs of getting there?). What about busfares to the job centre, mandatory training courses, job interviews and the supermarket?

Do people really think clever cooking is the answer to living off £62 per week?

where my mum lives, people have been shotting the swans to eat

Stressed mum no idea if you are near a Lid or not their aubergines are 49p this week.....

Well it's more than the £14 per week that we have been discussing.

Do people really think clever cooking is the answer to living off £62 per week?

It's certainly one factor that makes a difference. Of course it's not the answer but is better than nothing.

Is it?

If you take out water, gas, electricity you'd be removing £30 of that immediately, and that's on normal direct debit-type payment amounts. If you're paying on pre-pay meters or cards, it will probably be more by quite a margin.

Take out another £10 minimum for busfares to job centre etc.

Down to £22 now.

Don't forget that in your weekly shop you'll need to buy washing up liquid, toilet rolls, shampoo, toothpaste, deoderant, bleach.

So £14 per week on food is not that far off at all.

Well
It's what we've been discussing on the thread so I guess most of us do think it is possible - not ideal/fun/interesting etc but possible.

Well
It's what I have just demonstrated I do - every fortnight, all year, every year.
Why do you think it's desirable that my very rich country makes me live like this and expects me to grovel for it?

It's possible in the short term. It's not in the long term.

As soon as something happens to upset that careful utilities/busfare/food only balance, it goes wrong and people go hungry.

A pair of shoes worn through. An extra busfare. A broken down fridge. People will then access credit, which has to be paid back out of that £14.

People are going hungry.

I'm sure people will then come on and say that benefits are only supposed to be short term. And in an ideal world they would be. But it's not an ideal world. For every scrounger out there who doesn't want to work, there are many many more who do but can't get a job - too old, too inexperienced, not qualified enough, over-qualified, can't get childcare, needs time off to care for mum...

Why do you think I've said it's desirable?

Dahlen, so what is your solution? Where is the money going to come from?

Don't forget the new wheeze of just cutting off everyone's benefits through "sanctions". 2.5 million sanctions have been used since 2011.

That's 3 months with no income at all. They are really trying to kill people.

You forgot council tax, Dahlen. Even those on benefits must now pay. Oh, and clothes. Kids have this nasty habit of growing.

expat I'd completely forgotten that even those on benefits have to pay council tax now. Even less money to go around.

bubbley - I think the money needs to come from tax rises TBH. I dont' object to paying more. Although if the government held just one of the big giants that have avoided tax to account, the £6bn benefit cuts that have just been made could have been completely avoided.