The great british menu - food poverty... AIBU?

[Bogeyface]

I hate myself for thinking this but, AIBU to think that Lady Whatsername who said in the 90's that the reason poor people couldnt manage on benefits was because they lacked the ability to cook good simple nutritious meals, may have had a point? The way she said it was totally U and she was very sneery, but I cant help thinking that there might be a grain of truth in it.

Of the three families I have just seen in this program I saw what 2 of them ate in a day. one was a mother and daughter who's only meal of the day was a microwave burger each costing £1 each, and the other was a family where the children had fish fingers or nuggets and oven chips, while the parents had tinned veg.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

The second family, again, for the price of nuggets, fish fingers and oven chips they could make a spag bol using basics ingredients that would feed them all well.

RAther than focussing on the cost of food, which is only going to rise, surely it would be better to focus on educating people who eat badly because the food they choose is more expensive than cheaper, healthier alternatives that require a bit of cooking knowledge?

I definitely agree that people's expectations have changed and products / frills that would have been considered luxury items (designer clothes, massive tv, annual holidays abroad, dishwasher, smartphone, second car etc) not so long ago have increasingly become regarded as social norms. I work with some of the most socio-economically deprived families in the UK and even in extreme cases where there are 7 people living in a 1 bed flat the kids have smartphones & hollister track suits. I have no doubt that as a result the same families are taking cold showers and eating very little and yes, it is a question of priorities, but we have gotten into a society in which the trappings of materialism literally outweigh what we need to keep ourselves healthy, well and surviving like heat and nutritious food. It's quite scary really.

I do agree that families where both parents work possibly 'deserve' or are 'entitled' to some of these perks (if they want them). I have had it both ways - as a student with a newborn baby while DH was not on a huge wage, then working part-time while DH's wages went up and now we are considering with the imminent arrival of no. 2 that I will take a few years off to do the child care. We are lucky to be able to have options, our mortgage isn't huge but nonetheless we will struggle and unlike the last 2 years there will be no new clothes, no second car, no meals out, no sky sports, no gym membership etc. We might have to eat pretty basic food at times but we won't go hungry though and the thought that other families with young kids will be going hungry because of whatever circumstances they fun themselves in is, to me, genuinely very upsetting.

Garlic, "Bumbley, they were "made of sterner stuff". Because the ones whose stuff wasn't stern DIED, and those who were not quite stern enough of stuff were sent to be abused in institutions."

What are you talking about? You don't die or get sent to an institution because you don't hold your head up and get on with it when times are tough! I'm not saying it wasn't hard for them - of course it was! But as I said before, these people had come through some really tough times - had experiencd things that we probably couldn't even begin to imagine so they appreciated what they had and got on with life even though they may not have had everything they wanted/needed.

Little miss "I dont think the answer is to walk miles to try and catch your own food and not complain, not when yhe rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer"

That's the temporary solution. Yes, try to change things but in the meantime the alternative is sitting at home watching your family go hungry or feeding them crap food because you think the walk is too far and your bag would be too heavy.

Mrs Devere - I've already mentioned how some of then lost siblings etc - it's probably part if the reason why people were the way they were. Their lives were genuinely tough - tougher than we could even imagine. They appreciated what very little they had because they genuinely knew what it was like to have nothing.

Garlic, "In romanticising their sacrifices, you belittle their aims."

I am not romanticising it! Where have I said it was a great way to live? I've said several times that it was bloody hard for them, harder than any of us could imagine. My grandad's brother died in childhood. He lost 3 of his own children - the loss of his last one actually sent my grandmother into a spiral of depression so he pretty much lost her too. He died a few years ago but he was the most cheerful, optimistic man you could ever meet. To come through everything that he did and still find things to laugh and smile about just goes to show how strong a person can be. I admire his strength but I am in no way saying that it was great that he had to go through all that. I'm not sure why you are finding that so difficult to understand.

Bogey face, good post but I hope you're not suggesting that I said there needs to be another war!

Mrs Devere, you've obviously decided to interpret my posts as something they were not meant to be. I am in no way romanticising about anything my grandfather and his family went through. I am just admiring their strength and I don't see as much of that determination and strength around today.

Thank you techno tropic. I'm glad you understand the point I'm making.

LittleMiss - I agree with your post this morning.

Sorry about all the multiple posts! I was trying to keep them all in one but my phone was not making that easy!

I think you are romanticing it.

There are plenty of us who have come from very poor families. In mine a huge number of people died. The reason so very many small children died WAS because of poverty, it's not a coincidence, and part of that was poor nutrition (obvs poor access to medical care was very significant also)

It's also back to comparing bloody Britain and Spain again, the past is a different country! Lots of,things that were options then are not options now because we function so differently.

Where have I romanticised it? Where have I said it was a great way to live? Why don't you read what I'm actually writing instead of jumping to your own conclusions about what you think I'm trying to say.

Plenty of things are still options but people are choosing not to take them. Eg the people on this thread who have said that the supermarket is too far/not on a bus route/ can't carry/store a large bag of rice/pasta. Our grandparents would not have been saying any of that if it meant they could feed their families for less.

Because you are convinced that if our grandparents survived and we struggle then they must be better than us.

Which is not how it works. We are struggling differently, it doesn't make one less valid than the other.

In the past it was extremely rare to struggle with food costs and be employed (unless you were a farmer on a bad year, in which case, congratulations you're going to starve to death)

Current situation is pretty unique I think in how much many people struggle to make what's left after basic costs stretch - even though they are working full time.

Paradoxically there is a huge problem with obesity in this country.

Indeed angelsonhigh, it's quite staggering amidst the backdrop of food banks and people going hungry.

I think people look at the same set of circumstances differently. May be its whether you are an optimist or pessimist.

my great grand mother died when dgma was a child. He father commuted suicide. dgmas son died when he was a child.

Her mother died if an asthma attack, almost certainly treatable now. Her father had something like cancer (undignosed) and killed himself to avoid the untreatable pain. He son died of something now treatable by antibiotics aged 5.

But I dont think she ever thought she was unlucky. She lived in an age when you only had you and yours to rely upon so didn't think anyone else was going help her. So she did what she could and got on with living.

She carried on working until she was in her 80s.

Piss off with your it has never been as hard as now. It is very ignorant.

Yes, tewe, because, as others have pointed out, priorities have changed. For some reason food seems to be lower down the list than it used to be.

No mrsDevere, I'm not saying there would be 'no problems' so you're clearly not reading very well. I'm not sure what you think sounded 'cosy' about my grandad's story. Him losing his brother in childhood? Losing 3 of his own children? Being the sole provider for 10 children? Walking miles every weekend to fish so that they could have done meet on their plate? What part of that sounds romantic exactly?

Good post faster.

Some meat

Has anyone said it's never been harder than now?! I certainly didn't!

I said it's DIFFERENT the causes are different, the solutions are different and it's damn insulting to those doing the best they can right now to say they wouldn't be in this situation if only they did x, y, z which aren't bloody relevant to them in their personal situations.

That might be the case tewei, but then there is no one fix for todays problems, if as you say, every case is personal.

There are various things that would help most people now - like rent control, wage increases, profit control on essential goods/services (like public transport)

I'm not sure how many of those would have made a significant difference then, because the generic issues were very different. I wasn't alive then I don't know the exact causes and I'm not going to claim to be an expert. I think it's obvious that no one on this thread is.

well, I don't have massive expectations. we don't have a car, Sky. smartphones, designer clothes, holidays, more than 1 computer or any of those things. We do have a telly, though, even though I wouldn't mind if we got rid of it everyone else would.

Before I was ill, I walked miles to forage for food and then preserved enough jam, fruit, cordials, chutneys and the like to last until the next harvest. I had an allotment which I worked in for hours every week and supplied us with veg all year round. I can't do any of that any more because my health just doesn't allow it.

it's me who has 2 kids at uni. The situation is this. DS1 has just graduated and is starting a really good job in October. During term time he lived at uni and it took all his grant/loan to do so because he went to uni in one of the most expensive places in Scotland but the only one that offers his degree. it's on the other side of the country so no chance of living at home. He sometimes needed extra money to survive while there and he always needed supported during the holidays, as he does now because he can't get JSA because he has a job to go to, even though it doesn't start till October. HE spent a couple of summers doing research work at uni which paid enough to cover his rent but not much more and summer jobs/student jobs don't really exist either here or there. Add to that the fact that he has AS which is an extra barrier to the kind of jobs that he could perhaps have got and you might see the problem.

DS2 also has AS. he was HE'd because the local schools would not support him. So he has spent the last to years in college, firstly on a special course for AS kids and then on an access course. He did get a bursary for both courses which covered his bus fares to the city, bought anything that he needed for college, allowed him to buy some clothes and the like (cheap, not designer) and pay for the odd week's shopping for the house. In no way was it enough for him to contribute the the running of the household other than to buy some shopping and put the odd fiver in the gas meter. Now, he is off to the same uni as DS1 went to in September, sp we will be in the same position again. His loan/grant will cover his housing costs and books but nothing else. We can't say that he can't go because of money because, again, it's the only uni that does his course and he is far too bright to be held back. He will be the same in that holiday/weekend work will be practically impossible for him to find. Hopefully, he will be able to do some research work in the summers to keep him going.

Things aren't always a simple as they appear and sometimes the obvious solution isn't really feasible.

I so love the solutionists on this thread who think everyone lives exactly the same life that they do. I live rurally, it's MILES with no pavements to get to the 'local' co-op where everything is really expensive or it's 7 miles ish with no pavements to get to the edge of a larger town. I have a teenager who is very severely disabled and cannot walk and two other children. Are you seriously suggesting I just need to try a bit harder and find a way to walk there? i mean i can walk but it would be seriously difficult to walk their with my disabled child and the other two and walk back, especially on very little sleep and scarce suitable equipment. i have no-one else who can do it for me either
Life isn't as simple as buying a big bag if rice
a big bag of rice

arf at their, i meant there
obviously

so many typos, so little time

I'm not trying to say there is one easy fix for today's problems. I was just talking about the difference in attitudes to the problems and how to overcome them.

I have to admit I was curious about the catching fish thing - it's the kind of thing you could do in my home country, but here most waters are privately owned and catch and release.

Google suggests you could legally catch a reasonable amount from a river, but they have to be specific types of fish and sizes, the only large fish you are allowed to take are 1 pike a day , or risk massive fines.

There is a stream in our town but I've never seen any pike in it!