Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The great british menu - food poverty... AIBU?

993 replies

Bogeyface · 11/07/2013 20:25

I hate myself for thinking this but, AIBU to think that Lady Whatsername who said in the 90's that the reason poor people couldnt manage on benefits was because they lacked the ability to cook good simple nutritious meals, may have had a point? The way she said it was totally U and she was very sneery, but I cant help thinking that there might be a grain of truth in it.

Of the three families I have just seen in this program I saw what 2 of them ate in a day. one was a mother and daughter who's only meal of the day was a microwave burger each costing £1 each, and the other was a family where the children had fish fingers or nuggets and oven chips, while the parents had tinned veg.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

The second family, again, for the price of nuggets, fish fingers and oven chips they could make a spag bol using basics ingredients that would feed them all well.

RAther than focussing on the cost of food, which is only going to rise, surely it would be better to focus on educating people who eat badly because the food they choose is more expensive than cheaper, healthier alternatives that require a bit of cooking knowledge?

OP posts:
Toadinthehole · 17/07/2013 09:33

I don't disagree with the general view expressed here that those who criticise the poor for being feckless are pig ignorant.

However, I will say this: when I left the UK 12 years ago for NZ, things like fresh vegetables and fruit were dirt cheap: processed food was more expensive. Six years later I remember returning noticing that fresh produce was still very cheap (red meat excepted) but also that supermarket shelves were stocked with massive amounts of processed food, which I don't recollect was cheaper than the fresh stuff.

It is true that cooking from scratch requires equipment and fuel. While I believe there are people who have no cooking facilities at all, I'm willing to guess there aren't very many of them. Cooking from scratch doesn't mean making lasagne: it can be as simple as you like: it just has to start with raw ingredients. I expect that a lot of people on a tight budget don't do it simply because they choose not to. Do I blame them? Not really. I will note that incomes in NZ are lower than in Britain and food is about a third more expensive; spare a thought for poor people here, some of whom genuinely do get their meat by going off into the bush and shooting something, because they can't afford to buy it from the supermarket.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:33

Owl lady - does your DH have a car?

Toadinthehole · 17/07/2013 09:34

In case anyone wondered, that last sentence wasn't intended as a double-entendre. Blush

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:35

Tewi, I think they were brown trout that he used to catch.

Owllady · 17/07/2013 09:38

what do you mean though?
what is the differences in attitudes?
30- 40 years ago children like mine would have been institutionalised and their parents, presumably, would have been able to work full time and would not have been relied on by the government to be full time carers with very little break. Things have changed yes, but carers are expected to give up their jobs to care for their family which everyone seems to think is fine and then begrudge them 50 odd quid a week for doing so. Under the carers act local authorities have a legal obligation to support carers to carry on employment, i can tell you that does not happen and many are forced to give up work either to protect their own health or because they are left with no other choice but teeth suck away

I watched the program as well. The family were a working family, both parents worked. Why in this day and age do two wages not support a family to pay all of their bills and to eat well. They both were educated people, both with pretty good jobs from what we were told. The real question is why has housing costs rose to such a level that people cannot afford to eat after paying them? That is the real question. Housing and pricing haS CAUSED so many problems

Owllady · 17/07/2013 09:38

re my DH, his car is SORN as we cannot afford to run it atm!

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:41

So you all live in the country with no access to a bus/shops etc? How does he get to work?

Owllady · 17/07/2013 09:43

He rides his bike
The children get picked up for school on various buses provided by the local authority
hth

TeWiSavesTheDay · 17/07/2013 09:48

Brown trout is not on the legal catch list (now - I expect there wasn't a list then!)

This is the rivers list:

On any given day, you may only remove:

one pike of up to 65 cm;

two grayling of 30?38 cm;

up to a total of 15 small fish of up to 20 cm of the following native species: barbel; chub; common bream; common carp; crucian carp; dace; perch; pike; roach; rudd; silver bream; smelt; and tench.

I'm not sure how much actual edible fish there would be off that list.

Toad: my dad and his uncle grew up shooting local pests and selling the fur. They started as young teens. It works really well in their country, people still do it. There's so little wild land here in the UK though, so stuff like that is gamekeepers job, I expect you'd get done for poaching if you were caught.

It's annoying actually, how much the law blocks off options like that which could help with rural poverty. You could do them anyway (i bet people do) it's just risky.

But, on the side of the law makers, i see why they came up with limits for fish and can't allow poaching for the good of everyone.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:49

Is there no way he can pick up a few groceries from the supermarket on the way home then? I'm not sure how you get them at the moment. Delivery?

We live in the middle of nowhere too. When I was in my teenage years I had to walk two miles just to catch a bus so I could get to the nearest town! It is tough with no cat but doable.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:51

Yes tewe, sadly they're having to protect the fish now because so many are dying out due to pollution - run off from farmers fertilising their fields etc. :(

burberryqueen · 17/07/2013 09:51

my daughter has gone lake fishing today as part of 'activities week' - I told her to bring supper back, but she told me that was against 'health and safety'!!

Owllady · 17/07/2013 09:54

We have food delivered yes and to be fair we do get good offers off Sainsbury's in the way of vouchers etc, but it does mean I cannot go routing at salmonella corner every night and go to markets and so on. I do walk as well, I do over 10 miles a day in order to get to places but I was trying to explain to you that 16 miles with a severely disabled person and two other children really is not doable in order to get 31 tomatoes off the market and there will be lots of people who live like us. We work too, well I don't as I had to give it up last year as I faced yet another disciplinary for having two sets of two days off in a 12 month period. Life shouldn't be this difficult. Housing should not be at a price that it eats up all your money and there is little left over.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:54

Bream perch and roach are supposed to be quite nice apparently.

Owllady · 17/07/2013 09:55

and :o at my husband going shopping, the last time that happened he came back with a couple carrier bags full of random crap like frey betos pies and artic roll

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 09:58

Owl, I agree it would be very difficult to do with a disabled child/children. That's why I was asking if your DH could make a stop on his way home.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 10:00

Sorry x-post! That wouldn't stop me trying - give him a list!

SlowlorisIncognito · 17/07/2013 12:02

Sorry, I haven't read the last 6 pages of the thread yet, but I just wanted to comment on housing prices in the UK in response to some of Mijas posts.

I live in a university city, but otherwise not an affluent one. Rent for a 1 bedroom basement flat is £450, in a fairly undesirable area. This includes no bills, and you need lights on in the bedroom/bathroom to see as it has no outside windows. That's basically all of your 500 euro gone already.

Rooms in shared houses are about £350-£400 a month, for a double bedroom with shared living space. This means, obviously, that you have next to no storage. Because of overcrowding laws, there is a limit on the number of people living in each property, so each adult usually has to rent their own bedroom.

Plus, you have to find at least 1 month's rent for the deposit (often 1.5x), and you can be asked to leave around once every 6 months. In much of Europe, I know tenancies have a lot more security than this, and there are more laws about deposits and sometimes even rent caps. Renting in the UK is more expensive and very different to how it works in much of mainland Europe.

If you recieve housing benefit, it is even harder to find rental accomadation, and you may well end up paying over the odds for it. There is very little cheaper accomadation to be found, and HA/council houses are not easy to come by.

Didactylos · 17/07/2013 13:02

Ive had times in my life when I have been poor (as a child, mid 20s) and other times (now) when Im comparably well off

As a child I bumbled on happily like only a child can because my parents made sure we had a routine, full bellies, warm clothes and beds and to some degree were protected from their stresses. My mother always put aside a small sum so we could get books as we had no TV and the library (rural area) was a 24 mile round trip, I played outside with siblings and was happy, mother cooked every day and did some sewing as a (literal) cottage industry. Sounds idyllic, yes?

I didn't realise that my mother was seriously stressed, depressed and agoraphobic, and to be honest as a child never even wondered why she didn't speak or leave the house. I didn't realise how poorly off we were, didn't realise then that the euphemistic hop-hop, squawk-squawk and Bambi (rabbit, pheasant and venison) we were eating was either poached or roadkill (it allowed my parents to spend more on vegetables etc), or that my dads night fishing trips were of dubious legality. The house was a nightmare to heat off an open fire, the floors were uncarpeted concrete, at periods 4 of us were in one room, we used to be so proud if we could collect cones and wood for the fire because it saved using coal, and my father commuted a round trip of 80 miles plus to go to a physical job of heavy work because it was the only work around, before he set up his own business. And we used to clean t'road with our tongues.....

In my 20s (ahem some years ago) I was in my mothers position in a way though thankfully as a student with no young children to feed, but with a fiver to last each week for food, and general nitpicky negotiation of the bills with gas/electric suppliers every month, could deal with bailiffs at the door, walked ridiculous distances to low paid jobs at stupid o'clock in the morning in a depressed haze each day then tried to get to lectures and study, collapsing into bed at 7pm in a damp room with the laundry drying because I couldn't face cooking another bland sludge-meal, eking out the boots value shampoo to make it last another few days, stealing toilet paper from the uni loos! watching other students take on internships and voluntary work and interesting projects knowing I couldnt do anything that wasnt paid. Like being on a diet, the constant equationof food, time and money burning in your mind, I used to make long lists and plans as I walked everywhere, trying to contrive. And it was hard, and I dug deep to get a good degree and then further vocational work, and am now many years away from those days.

This isnt a stealth boast -(its great, I got on my bike and you can do it too!Angry) , this is a plea for those (like celebrity chefs and the posters here who think its all about extra lentils) its not, its about long term poverty, powerlessness and the trap of cheap shoes and not having any control over things or the feeling that it could ever get better. Its about poverty of choices and aspirations. Its about the million petty ways you got screwed over for more money because choices were limited eg metered electricity, bank charges, expensive local shops because the supermarket was less accessible, and a single unforeseen event or rise in gas costs could have you living on noodles and pepper for the week.

I got out and I know why - because despite the low income as a child I was brought up in a stable way, with middle-class aspirations and encouraged in education, because I was bright, articulate and had a certain self confidence even at my lowest ebb, because despite the grinding poverty and depression of those few years, I always had a goal, an ending, the idea that my education would allow me to move on, because I had a lot of the extra life skills (budgeting, cooking, mending etc that my upbringing had given me) and because I had no issues with drink or drugs. I don't know how Id have fared if Id had a less stable upbringing, less life skills and no modeling of reasonably emotionally healthy adult behavior, if I hadn't been encouraged and successful at school, if I had had literacy or numeracy issues or struggled to communicate, if I knew those years were going to be the rest of my life, with added issues such as physical ill health, disability, mental health issues or responsibility for children or elderly parents thrown in. I dont know how id cope if I ever ended up back in that situation

Im lucky and will not forget that.
I am with the posters who think we should be outraged that people are having to make the choice between food and heat, that people are still stuck in the same poverty traps and that the gap between our richest and poorest are still widening and will widen further, that we have hundreds of people chasing fixed contract, part time jobs, that our social contract and support for the most vulnerable is being dismantled and sold off to private concerns and charity and volunteering is meant to make up the gap, that further education is rapidly becoming for the richest only, that housing and childcare is prohibitively expensive, and that we are all apparently in this together!

Im most outraged that we have an apathetic disengaged electorate, semi-educated by the pap fed to them by a politicised press, and a professional political class so removed from the reality of the average persons life that they cannot empathise with the reality of being poor, and that we as a nation seem to be buying their narratives.

That turned into a long rant. If you read it all, thanks!

Alwayscheerful · 17/07/2013 13:12

Thank you, Didactylos a thought provoking and beautiful post.

Owllady · 17/07/2013 13:33

brilliant post

darrenmillar73 · 17/07/2013 14:07

Just having my first "Twitter argument" with someone called '@SecureNationall' he responded to the question 'how can we tackle this, any idea?' his response was 'make them work overtime' bloody muppet

emuloc · 17/07/2013 14:07

Didactylos What a great post. I thought we were all in it together but it seems to apply only to the poor.

LittleMissSnowShine · 17/07/2013 14:09

Didactylos - Great post

stressedHEmum - I'm not suggesting that you personally do have all those frills. I certainly do have most of them since I have only one DS and both me and DH have been working in ok jobs for last couple of years. But a couple of years ago before I was working and DH was earning £10k less, we didn't have them and if I decide not to go back to work after my maternity leave is over to look after my DSs for a couple of years I won't have them then either. Things will certainly be v tight but I know we won't actually go hungry, although we might not always have convenient or delicious food to eat. The point I was trying to make was just that it is a crying shame though, in this day and in this country, that some people do go hungry regularly.

Bottom line is that yes people, all people, do need to be responsible for the choices they make. If you have £30 a week to spend on food, then you need to try and find ways to stretch that to feed a family.

On the other hand it is undeniably true that while more and more people are unemployed or have taken wage cuts, the cost of living has gone up and up and up. Everything from groceries to heating has risen hugely over the last 5 years and paying basic bills has gotten really tough even for people on the same wage with the same basic outgoings. No matter how creative and committed you are to living frugally and stretching out a household budget, there's only so far it can stretch when inflation and rising prices are a reality.

Everyone from Daily Mail to Telegraph to Guardian seems to agree on that much at least

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jun/18/costs-living-rising-data
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148164/Cost-living-times-higher-average-pay-rise-official-figures-show.html
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100023337/budget-2013-fears-rise-as-cost-of-living-soars-four-times-faster-than-earnings/

darrenmillar73 · 17/07/2013 14:14

LittleMissSnowShine couldn't agree more :)

Swipe left for the next trending thread