To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

[INeedSomeSun]

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

I think in France it's only niqab which is prohibited, something which I actually support. There is no religious support or reason for someone to cover their face, and it does, in my opinion, turn a woman into a cipher, rather than a person.

"In France we have women forced not to wear hijab"

We don't, actually. You are thinking about the burqa.

If 'the west' (who/what exactly though?) spoke out against women being discriminated against for wearing any form of veil then they/it would be accused of meddling in areas/places that they have no right to meddle in (culture, politics and religion).

I don't doubt it. I don't see why it should stop anyone.

Is the hijab not banned in French schools then?

I recall reading not so long ago that Hollande is very busy calling for tighter restrictions on women being able to wear a headscarf publicly. Wont be long before he gets his way unfortunately.

That link is stupid - are you genuinely saying that your head covering is just the same as a head scarf? So why are you even bothering to talk about the Qran if that's all it is?

This is from 2001 when women were celebrating the end of the Taliban

The Women Speak
To westerners, the most visible symbol of the Taliban's oppressive regime was the order that placed all women under the burka. Its long-standing place in Afghan culture is complicated. Many rural women, especially, claim to wear it willingly, at least when they speak in the presence of their husbands. There is even high fashion in burka wear. In Kabul, women allow a bit of lace trimming to show at the edge. The best burkas, from the Afghan city of Herat, have exquisite pleating that imparts a shimmering, watery feel but takes hours to iron.

But nearly any educated woman you speak to loathes the burka. So do many less educated onesif you can question them where men cannot hear. The heavy cloth covering can induce panic, claustrophobia and headaches. It's a psychological hobbling of women that is akin to Chinese foot binding. It's also life threatening. Try negotiating a busy Kabul streetaround donkey carts, careening buses and the Taliban roaring by in Datsun pickups--when your hearing is muffled and your vision is reduced to a narrow mesh grid.

What are Afghan women really like beneath the burka? Talk to three from Dasht-i-Qaleh, a tiny, impoverished village long held by the Northern Alliance. Though the Taliban's restrictions against women have no force here, nearly all the women wear the burka. Long-standing cultural tradition exercises its own police power. And though these women have agreed to speak to TIME correspondent Hannah Beech, they will do so only through a female interpreter. They worry that their husbands might object if they learned that a man was present at the interview. During the conversation, a man does briefly enter the room. The women all hasten to cover their faces and turn toward the wall until he leaves.

On the streets, you would never know that these silent, shapeless forms, encased in these shrouds, have any views at all. But outside the earshot of men, the women are fierce, alive and opinionated. And when they shed their burkas, they turn out to be wearing brightly colored dresses. All three say they would prefer not to wear a burka or even a head scarf but fear they would be harassed. Zora, 28, says she has heard that when women go to Mecca on the hajj, the pilgrimage that all Muslims are enjoined to attempt at least once, they do so with faces uncovered. "If women can show their faces in Islam's most holy place, then why must we cover ourselves in Afghanistan?" she asks.

Please - I hope no one here is claiming to speak for all Muslim women.

Are you replying to me Crumbles because I haven't the faintest what you are on about. By headscarf I meant hijab, same thing last time I checked.

Cote too right I was angry! You inserted the brackets when I made it VERY clear in the quote that the Koran said NOTHING about wearing burkhas: "Although nowhere does it state that a woman should be clothed from head to toe just a small mesh to see out of." - I see you have not inserted that on the two occasions you have quoted me.

If that doesn't make it clear that I'm talking about burkhas not being in the Koran then I don't know what does.

I don't claim to be an authority on the Koran, thebody asked a question and I answered it to the best of my beliefs. As other posters stated, it was not actually the Koran but other religious texts which stated that women should cover their heads in public, which I think for a non-Muslim that's an easy mistake for me to make. You chose to haul me up in public for it and implied that I was ignorant. I do not appreciate that.

For the record, I would not mis-quote you just to make myself look good in a debate.

can you be a teacher in france wearing hijab? if not then that is discrimination.

Many of my childrens teachers, in run of the mill state school wear hijab, some wear abayah too.

I've just been reading in todays Telegraph of the murder of Ltnt Islam Bibi, the most senior police officer in Afghanistan. Her own brother had threatened to kill her.

The shooter has not been caught, nor has a motive been suggested, but we can speculate.

What's a scrap of fabric? She was a brave woman who died trying to live her life and help make the country a better, safer place.

Hijab is not banned in France. Full face coverings are.

This article on Femicide is very interesting. I think people may be surprised at some of the statistics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

I do wonder why we hear about the suffering of women in some countries, but not others.

My quote was "In France we have women forced not to wear hijab, or being discriminated against if they choose to wear it."

is hijab banned in schools? can you teach wearing hijab in France? can teens wear hijab to school?

If not then they are being coerced in to not wearing hijab. They are being told if you wear hijab then you will be denied an education. How is that different from being told if you dont wear hijab you will be denied an education?

Hijab is not banned in France.

ok i think you are for some reason finding it hard to understand my question.

Can a woman in France teach wearing hijab?

Will a teen in France be educated within the state schools if she wears hijab?

is not being allowed to wear hijab at work or school being forced to not wear it?
in my book it is.

Is denying someone a job or education because of them choosing to wear hijab an outrage?

As much of an outrage as those who are refused participation in public life unless they wear hijab?

In my book it is.

Moonmin, such a sad case.

Like malala, it makes you wonder who these men are and if they have mothers/sisters.

OK, checking specifically on the schools issue, it appears that ALL overt religious symbols are banned - yarmulkes, turbans, hijab, everything.

Moonmin, such a sad case.

Like malala, it makes you wonder who these men are and if they have mothers/sisters.

Specifically, from the actual law itself
"Dans les écoles, les collèges et les lycées publics, le port de signes ou tenues par lesquels les élèves manifestent ostensiblement une appartenance religieuse est interdit."

In the schools, colleges and public lycees, the wearing of signs or dress by which the students overtly manifest a religious affiliation is prohibited.
So it's everyone, not just hijab. Does that qualify as discrimination? I don't know. I also don't know the extent to which it's enforced.

Hijab doesn't equal headscarf. Hijabs are particularly type of headscarves connected to Islamic cultures. There are dozens upon dozens of other types of headscarves and other headcoverings around the world.

so what does that mean in practice?

it means that if girls choose to wear headcovering then they are denied an education.

It means you cannot teach if you wear hijab.

Why is there no outrage? because the law is phrased in a nice way? because it is made out to seem equal, when obviously it affects some religious traditions more then others?

Are there no schools run by nuns? are the nuns forced to remove habits?

This law applies in government schools. There are plenty of religious schools to which it doesn't apply.
The laicité of the French state is well-known and enshrined in many laws, and, I believe, the constitution. It's really, really important here.

Why on earth should we consider France an example to emulate?

This is a country where the National Front got their best ever results in the 2012 election.

No thanks.