To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

[INeedSomeSun]

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

You can't really forgive the ZZ Top guys though.

Funky in their own right. Member Frank 'Beard' is funnily the shaven one in the band.

Seriously?! Now that is funny!

I see First News has a cover story about Malala. Good for kids to read this stuff.

Cote thank you dear for so blatantly misquoting me and putting your own words, in brackets, in my answer to thebody So very kind of you to do that so that you could get on your high horse and tell me how wrong I was. For your information, here is my answer to thebody

"I believe it comes from the Koran thebody where it states that a woman is not to be seen in public without a head covering. Although nowhere does it state that a woman should be clothed from head to toe just a small mesh to see out of. "

Note the words "I believe" there which indicates that I am not sure but I was convinced I had seen it written down that women were to cover their heads. I also specifically mentioned that I had NOT seen anything which compelled them to wear the burkha.

So by taking out the words "I believe" and inserting this (hijab and burkha) into my sentence you completely changed it just so that you could correct it.

Thank you so much Cote, remind me to repay the favour one day.

Moomin dd went on a 10 mile walk to raise money for the Malala fund and I really wanted to show her the BBC documentary 'Shot for Going to School' as she's been following Malala's progress but it's so upsetting I will now have to explain why I can't. But I will buy her a copy of First News. I love that newspaper and it's excellent that they are keeping children informed.

10 miles! That's far for a little one. Good for her!

I wonder if the Newsround site covers it. I was having a mooch on there recently and they had a good section on politics. Little Bird (the discount voucher site) had a special offer on it. We usually pick it up with the weekly shop so it works out v good value.

I got our vicar to say special prayers for her when she was shot. It says she will be 16 tomorrow next friday. They are doing a youth takeover day at the UN that day!

Yes I often pick it up with the weekly shop too Moomin, I find it really well-written and very informative.

She is such a brave girl, she knew that she was a prime target but she chose to reveal her identity anyway and speak out against the Taliban. She must have realised what would happen to her as teachers were getting shot all around her and children injured as their schools were targeted, but she could see the greater cause and chose to sacrifice her own safety for that.

She is such an inspiration. If only everyone had her spirit. I note she had the full support of her father too who encouraged her and did a fair bit of speaking out himself. He was a teacher at a girls school.

Marilyn Monroe wore stunning headscarves and I'm pretty sure she wasn't an oppressed Muslim woman...

Helpful

Do you think she or her family ever thought they'd ever stoop so low? Not that that takes one miniscule iota away from how brave she was/still is. She must have been terrified every single day. I can't imagine living in fear like that. The reverse is that these men are so passionate about their... (I don't want to say beliefs or religion) their 'thoughts' that they kill and would shoot a schoolgirl. That's really scary.

I'm looking at a lot of burned skins in London today. And a few women in the full monty coverings. I suspect the smart women are those in the baggy trousers and skirts and long skeeved tops, with their heads covered. I see the turban has had a bit of a revival somewhere in the Middle East. These girls look like Ena Sharples! My granny used to wear them! It's funny to see the fashions each uear (last year it was pink/silver hunter wellies with coloured barn jackets.

If you take out a normal personal sub to First News you can nominate your school to get a freebie sub too. Our library gets it at school and the kids are encouraged to read it.

Rhubarb - I'm sorry that you have taken such offence to my post. I certainly don't think I deserved such venom and what looks like threats of retribution . In any case, I assure you that I was not misquoting you when I said "Rhubarb saying hijab and burqa were what Quran told Muslims to do". See below.

thebody asked:
Can I ask a question? Why do some women choose or otherwise to wear a burkha/hijab?

And you replied:
I believe it comes from the Koran thebody where it states that a woman is not to be seen in public without a head covering.... So women who wear them choose to do so out of respect for their religion. Basically they are doing what the Koran has told them to do.

... which I honestly think was a fairly accurate quote.

By the way, Quran does not say that women shouldn't be seen in public without a head covering. As I said before, the quote specifies covering the bosom (with "the cover", which for desert people living 1400 years ago was indeed a large fabric over their heads and around their body, but not necessarily). Iirc there is no mention of hiding the hair or other wise covering the body.

I have to add a photo of an oppressed woman in a headscarf
www.cbc.ca/news/arts/media/story/2007/11/05/vogue-glamour-queen.html

I agree that covering your face is not a requirement in Islam. It is not forbidden but it is absolutely not required. One of my SIL does not cover her hair at all, the rest do and the oldest wears the haik with a niqab. Each makes their own choice as in Algeria women seem pretty free to choose whether or not they cover their hair.

I think covering the face is a great way of protecting your skin in the sun/heat/dry air. Before sun cream and parasols it would make perfect sense. I'm not sure about the gold masks though. They scare me a bit - the look like fierce birds.

btw, my abayah is very cool lol, it is very thin, the air moves around inside it and it catches every little breeze, and you dont have to wear much under it, so basically you feel like you walking around naked, but without the sun burning your skin!

as for cotes point, she obviously know more then Arabic language scholars, what the Quran refers to when it says the words "Khimaar" and "jilbaab".

and those women who are fighting for women who are forced to wear hijab, will you also fight for those who are forced not to?

someone asked further up about my sister not being allowed to wear hijab. My sister didnt wear the scarf before marriage. She decided to wear it 3 years into marriage and my brother-in-law wasnt happy. She was wanting to wear just the scarf with ususal western clothes, but BIL could not get past how beautiful she looked without the scarf and how the scarf took that away. My sister is very pretty and he felt that she didnt look as pretty with the scarf on and he would literally sulk all the time if she would wear one.

It got to the point that their relationship became quite strained with him telling her what to wear (or what to remove in this case.) My mum wanted sis to stand her ground, but sister succumbed to pressure and now only wears the scarf when BIL is not going out with her.

It makes my blood boil that in this day and age, in this liberal society where it is claimed that woman has freedom of choice (as so many anti-hijab protesters have stated on this thread) my sister cannot put a hijab on solely because her DH likes a trophy on his arm when out and about.

BIL is of asian origin, highly educated, well-travelled and born and brought up here in UK (like my sis). He is othwerwise, kind guy. They have 2 little DDs. He likes to think of himself as a liberal and a thinker and hates everything about oppressive middle-eastern regimes and their religious oppression.

Having seen this sort of anti-hijab sentiment amongst asian men and also non-muslims in UKm purely because they 'do not like it', it makes me sick when they then harp on about oppression elsewhere in the world, claiming they are liberal and live and let live kind of people

That is also why I would like people to be just as aware and vocal of the oppression of women who want to wear a hijab, as they are about a woman who doesnt want it.

sorry for the long post

I agree with the poster who suggested speaking to Muslim women and asking them what they think and why they wear hijabs. I asked my friend today at the school gates, she said she grew closer to god in her late 30's and wanted to cover to show her total belief and subordination. It is also important to her that when walking down the street she is instantly recognised as a Muslim as she's very very proud to be Muslim and refutes all the current negative connotations.

Finally, she said that on days when she hasn't washed her hair it's a godsend (excuse the pun) to be able to put on a bright sparkly scarf and be ready to face the world!

It was a brilliant chat. Very enlightening. To anyone who thinks the hijab is a sign of oppression please go find someone who is willing to share their experience. Far from oppressed, I found a stoic, funny, well balanced feminist.

Ahhh a cool breeze! I'm as hot as a hog today.

Now then Nailak, is voicing opinion both, neither or one way only something that another practising muslim woman can do really? Often you will hear 'you aren't in my shoes' type comments and people are generally (in the real world anyway) cautious about making judgements about other cultures/religions and customs. It would be like someone telling me that Scots shouldn't do X, Y or Z. Now, I may agree 100% but my heckles would be raised if this person lived the other side of the world and had never been to Scotland and only knew what they'd seen on the telly.

I want to support women but I am ignorant in these cases as I haven't walked in your shoes.

Bakingnovice, well done for asking. In my experience, most women who i have met and cover, do so for the same reason explained by your friend.

In the pakistani culture, it was not the norm to wear a scarf in such a way that all your hair was hidden - in fact most women didnt wear it on their heads.

Nowadays in the UK, a lot of the pakistani women are ensuring that their hair is fully covered and they love the rights that islam has given them - it truly liberates them

" is voicing opinion both, neither or one way only something that another practising muslim woman can do really? Often you will hear 'you aren't in my shoes' type comments and people are generally (in the real world anyway) cautious about making judgements about other cultures/religions and customs"

No

Plenty of people, non Muslims do comment on women being forced to wear hijab.

In France we have women forced not to wear hijab, or being discriminated against if they choose to wear it.

Why would they talk about one and not the other?

Muslim women that I know talk about both. THey talk about those women who are living under oppressive regiemes who dictate women have to do things and are denied opportunities, fundraise for them, raise awareness, blog about it, if you look in Muslim womens magazines and stuff it will be in there. They also do the same things when women are forced to not wear hijab/niqab.

Do you feel that I have the right, as a non muslim, to stand up and be counted? As a woman, yes I suppose, but as an 'outsider' I'm conflicted. Is it my bloody business? Should I keep my fat nose out?

i wear the hijab, but i cannot stand it when i hear of men in oppressive regimes telling a woman that she must cover. i do not think that 'hmm, well she should be covering because islam says..'

I am all for that woman's freedom of choice. Why does that bamboozle some?

Blue - you use your right to wear what you want! Just because some people think you have chosen 'wrong' (that must drive you bananas btw) and melt their poor wee brains ('she has a choice and chose to wear that???'). Did you ever watch Red Dwarf when they made an adroid from the future self-destructed by telling him there was no afterlife and his brain couldn't handle it (but where do all the toasters go?)?

Hmmmmmm. In some of those regimes the politicians were democratically (haha in some cases) voted in - by men and women. I know often it would have been a Hobsons Choice, but if asked what their main worries were, would a scarf be it? My relies would say 'stuff that, the economy is down the tubes, PM is crazy and food prices are rocketing'.

Defuse - thanks for answering my many qs. It must be very frustrating for you, your mum and your sister (mainly of course). As ever, men looking after the 'silly, soft wiminfolk'. Aren't we lucky?

Defuse, is he worried about her safety wearing it?

^^seems unlikely. Defuse says her DSis wears it when she is going out without him. I would hazard a guess that he is too embarrassed to be seen with her in a headscarf.