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AIBU?

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Original poster

To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

908 replies

INeedSomeSun · 02/07/2013 09:44

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

OP posts:
LastTangoInDevonshire · 02/07/2013 23:30

Another genuine question: how can a nurse or doctor conduct their business in a hospital if they have to keep stopping to pray?

If they work in the emergency department what do they do when it comes to prayer time and they are saving someone's life?

thebody · 02/07/2013 23:31

I don't see women who cover a stupid but I do see it as a symbol of oppression.

Fuzzy you said' women who choose freely to cover their head'

That's the point. They don't all choose do they? Here maybe but not everywhere else.

mombie · 02/07/2013 23:34

nobody has to stop to pray mid surgery, only matter of time before NHS crisis became the fault of them muslimists!

defuse · 02/07/2013 23:36

lasttango , sorry if i upset you earlier. From islamic point of view, if the choice is to save a life or pray - then you save the life - and make up the prayer later.

So you have to fulfill your role towards people (in this case save life) and then towards God (do the prayers)

You have quite a bit of flexibility and it is not as rigid as you may think.

LastTangoInDevonshire · 02/07/2013 23:36

mombie - can't you answer a genuine question without being sarcastic?

LastTangoInDevonshire · 02/07/2013 23:36

Thank you defuse.

mombie · 02/07/2013 23:39

I have managed to answer a few earlier. just wondering where you were going with it.

crescentmoon · 02/07/2013 23:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeedFood · 02/07/2013 23:40

Seriosuly?! Are these posts for real? Stopping life saving surgery to pray? Are there lots of dead ppl lying around because of this and we didn't get informed by the media? I must have missed this.

Some of this posters are just muslim bashing for the sake of it.

PrincessFiorimonde · 02/07/2013 23:43

I agree with a poster's point above that wearing the hijab comes down to both 'culture' and 'choice'. However, I reject the 'culture' from which this idea springs if it really does suggest that this is a clear 'choice' for a 5-year-old (the original point of this thread).

I do see the related point that 'Lady Mary' (= the BVM, in the Catholic culture in which I grew up) represents 'modesty', 'along with submission and duty and responsibility', but 'submission' is not a trait that I admire, or that I want to see perpetuated among our children. When the poster adds that these are 'traits in all the abrahamic faiths that hold up modesty as a virtue not as an abomination', I can only say that it is time to ditch the Abrahamic faiths as pernicious claptrap. By all means, let our children have a sense of responsibility, but please let them grow up to be less submissive and more likely to take their fate in to their own hands.

thebody · 02/07/2013 23:44

Needfood, what a twattish post.

Read the thread to see real respectful debate and then come back.

crescentmoon · 02/07/2013 23:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curlew · 02/07/2013 23:45

So women have equal rights in Islamic countries?

That's a relief. I could have sworn they didn't. So glad I was wrong.

mombie · 02/07/2013 23:46

I am glad that Muslim women are becoming more empowered as they become more knowledgeable about their religion. there is an ongoing battle on a day to day level between the old culture and the new.. It does slowly but surely trickle down. It may not be obvious to those on the outside but it is happening.

PrincessFiorimonde · 02/07/2013 23:50

islam came and destroyed primogeniture and wherever islam spread women were able to inherit from their families unlike in christendom where women only got that right in the 19th century. the problem of eldest son taking all the wealth was still a problem and a theme in Jane Austen's England 1200 years after muslim women were able to have that right.

so we dont have that grievance against religion that western feminists have.

REALLY? So how many Muslim kingdoms have been ruled by men and that rulership has been inherited by their daughters, then? I'm thinking (off the top of my head) Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, for a start?

And how many Muslim men have controlled big companies that have been passed on to their daughters? Can you name just one, please?

NeedFood · 02/07/2013 23:51

Thebody - all credit to the women who are repeatedly explaining things very patiently. However, not only am I not as good with words as them nor do I have as great a tolerance for some of the very obtuse posts left here. Perhaps my impatience is coming across as 'twattish' to you but come on now! The questioning is needling and just plain ignorant in my view.

defuse · 02/07/2013 23:56

thebody ok...so some women around the world do not have a choice in covering. So why should that impact my choice to wear the hijab. Some women around the world are forced into prostitution - wearing 'revealing' clothes because men have forced them to. does that mean that no woman in this country is allowed to wear 'revealing' clothes because of the oppressive actions of men around the world. Those clothes are a symbol of oppression too - why no call to ban those.

we are bombarded daily with oppressive messages to look alluring for men in this country - be it the push-up bra, the length of skirt or the magazines which constantly give you tips on how to please your man. Recently was the craze of 50 shades of grey - great stuff furthering the cause of female liberation right! Even in business settings, society/media is still encouraging women to use their sexuality - by dressing in a certain way to get further. Yet, we do not blame the woman nor their choice.

But bring the hijab into the equation and all bigots come out in force, standing shoulder to shoulder angry with the hijab wearing woman - how dare she make a choice to wear what she wants to wear - because somewhere in the world, someone is being forced to wear it.

double standards or what!

defuse · 03/07/2013 00:00

curlew . do you honestly believe that women have equal rights in this country?

crescentmoon · 03/07/2013 00:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thebody · 03/07/2013 00:08

NeedFood, point taken.

Defuse, women have choices here to dress in arse skimming skirts or completely cover up. Fantastic.

You can't deny that is not the case around the world.

Of course any case where a woman has list the choice is as bad in a western brother as it is in a Pakistani village.

One does not cancel out the other.

I defend womens right to choose,, burkah or mini skirt. But THEIR real choice not the choice if their culture or religion.

GoshAnneGorilla · 03/07/2013 00:09

Princess - Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia have all had elected female leaders.

Liberia is a mixed Christian and Muslim country (Watch Pray the Devil Back to Hell if you want to see Liberian Christian and Muslim women working together to restore peace to their country) and has Africa's first female president.

The head of the International Criminal Court, Fatou Benesouda (sp?) is a Muslim woman

Syria, one of the countries you mentioned is a secular Baathist dictatorship. Not a Muslim kingdom.

thebody · 03/07/2013 00:09

Brothel not brother....

PrincessFiorimonde · 03/07/2013 00:15

Someone suggested that 'Lady Mary' always wore hijab. But there are lots of paintings suggesting that she didn't.

For example Leonardo (Mary is the one bending down)

And Raphael (Mary getting married)

GoshAnneGorilla · 03/07/2013 00:17

So what are "real choices" thebody?

Do only nice, white atheists make real choices, unimpeded by any external factors whatsoever? Veritable islands, immune from any societal pressures.

Whereas as Muslim/religious women have heads full of nonsense? Unlike the clever, clever secular sorts.

Who on earth do you think you are to determine which choices are valid? Do you not understand how oppressive you sound?

defuse · 03/07/2013 00:19

Thebody, you said yourself that

I do see it as a symbol of oppression

and

They don't all choose do they? Here maybe but not everywhere else.

The point is - viewing a hijab as a symbol of oppression is a very narrow view and you are actually causing oppression by making your views known - on the woman who wears it - whether out of choice or out of oppression.

It is an unhelpful and a poor way to tackle the injustices that you are allegedly against.