To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

[INeedSomeSun]

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

This: I don't agree with the reasoning behind the veils - it seems very insulting to men to say that a man can't possibly look at a woman without being overcome with lust. Women are obviously much stronger in this matter, as they can manage to look at a man without being tempted to think that way.

And this: Any religion/custom/practice from any area, race [or] community that seeks to constrict or lessen choices for women (or men) on dress, behaviour or life chances stinks.
It's about control. It's about accepting your place in life and society and not striving or questioning.
It's usually also about money and power and, most generally, these are held by men, of course.

And this too : Our [Western] society produces padded bras for little girls, skimpy knickers, revealing tops with risque slogans, tight skinny jeans, high heeled shoes, make-up, etc. In short, it encourages girls to show off their bodies from a very young age.
The Muslim culture encourages their little girls to cover up their bodies from a very young age, as the woman's body is sinful.
Both are equally bad, both discriminate against women

And also this: But the whole point of the thread was that 5 year old girls are not choosing. We've had the whole 'dressing up like mummy' thing but generally children do that at home, you don't get them turning up at school in Mummy's high heels and make-up.

In summary, this: Men are using religion to reinforce the privileged position they already hold, i.e. it's not me who says you can't ... its God, and you can't argue with God.

Finally, this: Isn't it amazing that the word of god in all religions often comes out of the gob of a bloke.

WHY should my attitude change?

My choice to wear or not a headscarf will not benefit a muslim woman being opressed in outer mongolia.

My active campaigning and work to help that woman will.

My wearing a headscarf in the workplace and being downright amazing at my job will give people at work who believe that Muslim women are opressed food for thought.

Please stop accusing me of a prejudice against women who cover. I don't have one, though it suits you to imagine I do. It suits your argument, and is easier for you to label and reject.

I have just explained this. We can't agree, and you don't seem to understand that I am not talking about people who think a headscarf=stupid. I have not seen a single example on this thread of anyone who thinks a woman wearing a headscarf is stupid or incapable. Not from me, not from anyone. You are arguing with something that doesn't exist here on this thread and with a point that has not been made. Of course it's easy to argue against, because it's obviously not true that a woman who wears a covering is stupid or incapable. Therefore you think you make a point. But nobody is denying it. So what? Headscarf wearers can be competent and capable? It's not exactly a "who knew?" is it?

But there it is, the denial that it's a symbol of oppression. As long as you do that, we cannot agree.

maybe she wanted to wear it?

My attitude certainly doesn't have to change and it won't. What an frighteningly aggressive thing to say.

My choice to wear or not a headscarf will not benefit a muslim woman being opressed in outer mongolia.

Of course it does - it sends a message to ALL the men who run Islam that people agree with what they are doing!

crumbled - are you having a laugh? Or are you really serious? a choice has been made by you to put the blinkers on - a symbol of ignorance.

Remove the blinkers some day - and try to see the woman for who she is. You will find it very humbling. It takes so much courage to wear the hijab - even more to wear the niqab and walk down the street. If you think it is a sign of oppression - try to wear it. you will find that it is generally society and people like you that will oppress and make ill-informed judgments about the woman wearing the scarf. Try to endure the taunts, the verbal abuse, even the physical aggression that the woman may have to suffer. You talk of hijab as oppressive, try to walk in a hijab and you will realise where true oppression actually lies.

I understand exactly what fuzzy means when she says that she has to work twice as hard because she wears a hijab. I totally get it.

So, if I went to Saudi Arabia and tried to walk down the street wearing very little, would I be treated with the tolerance you are asking us to show?

No, I'm most certainly not having a laugh. It's extremely depressing. And again - you do not understand, defuse, a word of what I said in my last post. Perhaps we cross posted.

Very depressing talk. Goodnight.

I have yet to see an female Ayatollah or a Mosque Elder who is female!

it inhibits me - EXACTLY !

It's not tit for tat - it's called equality.

lasttango - contrary to popular belief - we do not all go running to ayatollah every time we need guidance.

there are many many many islamic study groups run by women, who lead and also advise - if need be.

What exactly is a mosque elder?

Will one of you please tell me: when we see pictures of prayers, in a mosque or in a street, why is it only men? Genuinely interested.

mejypoo You are right that tit for tat with Saudi Arabia would be wrong.
But the clear public perception of Islam is that the tolerance always seems to be in one direction.

Lasttango - and that is your definition of equality????? ROFL.

defuse - you mock me because I don't know the correct term for someone who runs the mosque. I was trying to be polite.

lasttango - if i told you that women also pray in mosques and in streets and in shopping malls and in playgrounds and in schools and in universities and in hospitals. Would you believe me?

all the men who run Islam? Wow..

Crescent Moon, I feel exactly as you do about my hijab. it's about me, my tendencies for excess and vanity. Not to toot my own horn, but its an acknowledgement of the power behind female sexuality. Hard to explain.

no more a symbol of opression than a push up bra.