Penalised for being a single parent with a boy!!!!

[Zeezee25]

Firstly I would like to say ?hello? to everyone, even though I have comes to mumsnet to get info I didn?t signup sadly. Just to warn you this will be long!
Today I am faced with a situation and would welcome any advice or criticism, if I am wrong please tell me and help me understand.
A little background, I am a single mum who is 25yrs old with a 5yr old boy. I?ve currently finished my penultimate year of uni and work part-time. My son is your average little boy who goes to school and is a member of a swimming and football club.
Recently I have noticed that his swimming has improved but may need a little more help to improve his technique, adding to him also asking why I never get in the pool with him (im just so busy), I decided I would take him to my local pool once a week with me.
I get there and I first ask if there is women swimming times and I am told ?yes?. The times are perfect, 3days a week. I thank her and say my son will be so happy, and then it all changed from friendly to becoming defensive. The lady replies with ?oh sorry it?s only for women and girls?. I say ?ok, when can I bring my son? which she replies with ?only in public times?. The conversation went back and forth with me explaining I don?t take him in public for religious reasons also I am just not that confident in swimwear to be swimming with men around. She then suggests I ask a male family or friend to take him, this annoys me as he does go swimming but not with me which was the whole point of me coming. She further explains that women have complained that they don?t want little boys around, even little boys as young as 2yrs of age (I decided to ask what boy age was appropriate).
I was informed the pool programme is: 1 day ? women only no children, 2 days ? women and girls.
What I am annoyed/angry about is that 3 times a week these women can go swimming and I am told too bad. Why is there two days for women and girls and not one day each for girls and boys (even add little girls to the boys day I don?t really care). I felt extremely penalised for being a single parent, even more penalised for having a son and not a daughter. I also feel kids (babies in my eyes) are being made to be what they are not. Kids don?t care who is in the pool or what you wear or how you look. My son will swim with me and not care about anyone else. Am I wrong they change one day so little boys can swim with their mothers? I know I can?t be the only single parent in the community with a son, our needs are completely ignored.
Anyway it ended with me being told I cannot bring my son and to come public times or just not take him. I feel really sad now as I am faced with not taking him because I can?t bring myself t wear a swimsuit with men in the pool. Most of all I feel guilty for letting my insecurity hold my son back from improving his swimming. What advice would you give me? Have you had situations like this? If I am just complaining for no real reason please help me understand. Thank you so much for reading my very long rant.
Zeinab

But on that note curry any man who wants to go swimming at that time also can (rightly so IMO)

ArthurSixpence

How would the OP feel about that I wonder?

Probably that you were failing to celebrate diversity.

No one is saying you and your son can't go, you are choosing not to because of your own beliefs your choice.

I also want to know what age you feel uncomfortable swimming with other mother's boys.

So for those people who think it should be woman and children, what about the men?

Why discriminate a father with kids?! Where's the men and kids?

Exactly if we please all it ends up with no public time.

Zeezee25 have you checked with the manager, or just the desk staff who might not be well trained? My local swimming pool in a large inner London borough states women only plus girls for the women only session, but there are often young boys there (up to about 8 I think). Otherwise, can you find alternative swimming garb that makes you feel less anxious? Our local department store sells swimming cossies for Muslim ladies which do not cling and cover from neck to hands and feet, which can be worn with a headcovering - lots of the ladies at our women only swim wear them and they are quite snazzy.

Thank you Mrs Lettuce for posting that link, I've been looking for an affordable burkini for ages.

I'll bow out of the thread though as I sense it will get very ignorant, very quickly and people will start talking about Winterval.

For the record, if ignorant people stare because I'm wearing a burkini, that's their own bad manners.

P.S swimming pools, even those which are subsidised wouldn't offer women only classes if there wasn't a big demand for them. Nothing wrong with catering to customer's wishes, is there?

Nothing wrong with catering to customer's wishes, is there?

Well yes there is if it excludes a high percentage of the local population.
How would you feel if the national front wanted to have white only swim sessions? They would be customers too but i dont see anyone agreeing to the request.

What your situation has done is expose the stupidity of these rules. Women only - fine. Specifically 'women with girls' only - WTF. Find another pool that isn't run by morons.

OK, the rules at the pool are a bit odd. I live in a Muslim country and I am used to the sexes being segregated for many things and there being Women Only sessions for things, but boys are not usually excluded as young as 5, I am fairly sure of that. They are still practically babies.

I think it's a bit much to suggest you are being discriminated against though - it's just an unfortunate set of circumstances that puts you in this position, nothing sinister.

And no-one will stare at you if you go in the mixed sessions - they won't even know that you are someone who prefers to cover - you will just be another woman in the pool with her child and no-one will bat an eyelid.
Presumably as you are not married and you have a son you have taken your clothes of in front of a man before. If you managed it then I'm sure you can manage it now.

But I do think the pool management ought to seek advice about what is a reasonable/acceptable cut off age for boy children, and publish it instead of having this woolly 'some women don't like even having two year olds around' nonsense.

If some women have genuinely thrown a hissy fit about having two year-old boys at a swim session, when they are allowed to bring their two year-old girls, then those women need to get a very large grip.

But I would imagine this is the woman at the pool trying to come up with an off-the-cuff excuse.

I'm surprised people think the OP is being precious. I think this is completely unacceptable. It's not discrimination against a single parent, because it also excludes two parent families where it's the mum at home with the children. But I think any rule which allows women to take their small female children but denies them the right to take their small male children, is extremely difficult to justify.

I'm not personally fussed about all-female sessions, but I appreciate that there are plenty of people who are, for all sorts of reasons.

I find it very difficult to see what possible justification anyone could come up with for wanting pre-school boys excluded. I appreciate that there might be a difficulty in coming up with a cut-off age, but it should be manageable. They could say pre-school boys only, or under 5s. There are plenty of sessions at all sorts facilities with age limits and they manage to enforce them.

Presumably these sessions are during the day, so there'd be a natural age cut-off anyway, as most children are in school by 5.

Whatever their cut off is for having boys in the ladies' changing room (usually eight I think) it should be that.

YABU.

The pool has obviously tried to accommodate everyone and their personal preferences, regardless of the reasons for those preferences.

"i also need to accept that some people see little boys as men because they share a gender"

When you are allowed/not allowed to act/dress a certain way in front of one gender but not another, regardless of what that person is like as an individual I don't think you can complain about your son being tarred with the same brush.

I hope your find a solution though so you can enjoy swimming with your DS.

I'd be pretty pissed if I went to 'women's' swimming and found loads of kids there - boys or girls, in my mind its when adults go to exercise not dodge children playing

As for swimming, I wouldn't be happy if a load of kids were at an adult session. You need a parent and child session. All the other parents will be too busy with their kids to worry about you.

You see, you are both mistaking this 'Women Only' session with an adults session. These sessions are not for adults to be away from children, but for (mostly Muslim) women to be away from men. Even if they covered in a burkhini they may still object to free mixing in a family pool session, as the men would be almost naked.

If they want to swim with their children this is the only way they (think) they can do it. Which is tough on women who have gone to a 'women only' session expecting to find an adults' serious swimming session, when actually it may be more like a parent and child session but without any Dads.

Yabu and stamping your feet because you can't get your own way.

I am for the most part not able to take both of my children swimming as they are 3 and 5. There is a session at my local pool that caters for a parent with two non-swimmers but it is on one of the days when I work.

I am clearly being discriminated against for having two children and working on Thursdays. Sign my petition anyone?

Use the public session. Simple.

You need to speak to the centre management because nothing will change otherwise.

I've just re-read the OP and this pool offers an adult only women's session and two female (children included) sessions am I right? So there isn't even a family session anyway, and half of its opening time is dedicated to women. That's unusual, and probably the result of particular demand.

If you can gather enogh support from mums in a similar position I'm sure the centre will be happy to add a new session, if it knows there is the demand for it.

This sounds more like an essay question set for an undergraduate degree.

whatever - the OP isn't being particularly proactive but is complaining that all her very specific needs haven't been catered to. We dont really know whether she has tried to push the issue further with the management, or taken one persons word as gospel.

certainly it seems unlikely that the op would hire her the pool and organise her own session, just as much as clubs do.

Neither has she explained how she became such an experienced swimmer who will benefit her child's swimming without being able to swim at public pools or having a suitably modest costume.

I cant see the point in women only sessions anyway. Its a public pool, and segregation of women from men makes me uncomfortable. So does the attitude that other people have nothing better to do than look at you. Its very self obsessed, and almost certainly not happening. And I say this thinking in mind of some very white, overly precious, Catholic friends of my granny living in the north of Scotland.

Yanbu. The women's session should be open to women only no kids, or women and children of any gender up to the age when kids are allowed in on their own.

Fuck all the segregation basically. Public pool, you expect the public to be there. Sometimes I want a quiet swim, sometimes the children want to jump in the deep end over and over. We both paid, both have a right to use the pool.

What really boils my piss is when you have to consult a bloody itinerary of the pool's sessions before you can pop down. I work shifts, I have a DP and a DS, it's a local authority pool, if it's open from 8-6 I want to be able to use it from from 8-6.

If I don't like the other people there because of their age/gender/monstrous swimming caps which look as though a floral display is coming towards you and should have a jaws type theme song, then I should fuck off home.

Other people are outside, let's all deal with it.

Saidar, I think that we may be twins separated at birth.

Either that, or we just share exactly the same views on this particular subject.

I worry about what it says about how society consider small boys.
They are children, not men.

GibberTheMonkey:
I worry about what it says about how society consider small boys.
They are children, not men.

I worry about what your comment says about how (a large part of) society considers men.