Want to take petty obnoxious revenge on child-unfriendly cafe. suggestions?

[PrincessTeacake]

Before I lay it all out, I am a person that gets frustrated when small children act up in cafes with no interference. I sympathise with the staff who clean up after messy child patrons and if my two make a mess, I usually clean most of it up myself. Today's cafe however had no recourse for their behaviour.

Myself and two mums (I'm a nanny) were at a toddler group this morning, our bunch are very good friends and wanted to play together after the playgroup was finished. We agreed to bring them to a playground nearby but since it was just about lunchtime, we wanted to feed them first an this cafe (we'll call it BC) was between both places.

There were three adults and seven children, ages between 2 and 4, and the staff firstly gave us no assistance in getting our group seated. No high chair was offered for the very small just-turned-2 year old, I found it later in the bathroom. The children's menu was farcical, everything came with chips and although mashed potato was on the menu you couldn't substitute it for the chips without paying extra. My lone vegetarian option was pretty rank too but beside the point. I ordered 3 orange juices for me and my twin mindees, we got tap water and a thimble of squash in it.

The kids were sitting nicely but got a little high spirited in each other's company, started singing. I was mid-drink and about to stop them but the waitress jumped in before them, shushed them quite aggressively and told them they'd have to leave if they didn't be quiet. The older kids clammed up but one of the younger ones got upset and started crying.

They gave us the bums rush from start to finish. My two only left the table to use the bathroom with me in attendance and we were mostly engaged in a quiet game of I spy with one of the older girls. The waitresses kept butting in to clear the kids still mostly full plates and sweeping under and around our table which, honestly, wasmessy but not that bad. Finally the two mothers got fed up and left. I stuck around to finish my crappy salad, and when they asked me if my mindee was finished, I was sufficiently curt with her that they backed off.

In the meantime, the manager had gone outside to talk to the mums, and he told them that three people had walked out and said they wouldn't be back because of the kids. Even if that was true, and I saw nobody leave except the mums, It was a gross overreaction to an admittedly large group of small kids.

To put this in perspective, I had the twins at Yo Sushi the week before (to see the 'food train') where the waitresses were so impressed by their willingness to try yakitori, edemame and eating with chopsticks that they were over every few minutes praising them and gave them free desserts. I take them to loads of eateries and I've never been treated with such contempt.

So, revenge? I'm thinking of taking the mindees there every day after playschool and only ordering tap water and tea. Which we will nurse for three hours while quietly doing a jigsaw on the table.

... Did you seriously just compare Arpatheid to cafes that aren't child friendly?!?!

If you have trouble understanding my point (which is that ppl shouldn't be discriminated against because of their age) then have an insightful friend explain it.

No I got your point, I just can't believe that was your chosen casual example.

But since you are being quite snidey, I think I will just disengage with you.

'And no. Proprietors do not get to "choose" who uses their establishments.
That went out with the abolishing of apartheid.'

This isn't quite Godwin's Law but it's getting there, isn't it?

I hate kids in restaurants. If I go I hiss at the waiter "DON'T SIT ME NEAR THE KIDS"

I hate kids in cafes. Especially when the mum is so proud and expects you to adore them. No thanks. I like my own kids not yours.

Discrimination is discrimination.
There's a difference between being child friendly (offering crayons and bottle warmers or whatever) and making everyone feel welcome.(or making particular ppl feel unwelcome)

The belief that ppl should limit the number of children in an establishment is no different (ie, the same) than expecting to limit the number of elderly ppl, ppl in suits, ppl from a different class.

It is possible to compare principles without extrapolating all further details from one example.

Mind you. Complaining about the menu once you are seated..

"I can't get my head round three different people leaving and saying they were not coming back just because some quiet, well behaved toddlers had come in"

How about getting your head around "NOT quiet, well behaved toddlers"

See? Easy now.....

'I hate kids in restaurants. If I go I hiss at the waiter "DON'T SIT ME NEAR THE KIDS"

I hate kids in cafes. Especially when the mum is so proud and expects you to adore them. No thanks. I like my own kids not yours.'

OH MY GOD IT'S EUGENE TERRE'BLANCHE. SOMEONE GET A HARPOON

Lol. You just grow out of toddlers. I've done ma time ;)

This is why adult only hotels exist. People don't all find children endearing.

I think any business can choose which customers it decides it wants to encourage, and those that it doesn't.

But those that discourage children and families are missing a valuable part of the economy.

We eat out at various places around our town. With DD who is almost 9 and have done since she was a baby. We have been made welcome in most places apart from one 'high end' pub/reasturaunt that refused to serve us food inside as we had D/D with us, then aged 6 I think. The meal came to over £70, they took our order then said they would 'set us up' outside as we had D/D. I said we would prefer to eat inside, they said no can do. We left. D/D at this point was sat colouring in, hadn't made a fuss or offended anyone and was higly unlikely to.

Never been back, even though the food is raved about and we have times when we are child free.

If you look to the continent you see huge family groups sat outside or inside, with well behaved children. The grown ups don't get pissed up to the point they end up passing out after throwing up in the street, the children don't run riot and annoy other diners, the staff are happy to serve them and used to having large family groups out eating late at night.

I think most pubs in the UK insist that kids have gone by 8/9pm? And are only welcome if eating etc etc.

Soft play centres and 'family' themed pubs with a soft play area are my idea of hell to be honest. Avoid them like the plague because they are full of badly behaved children who have no idea how to eat or act in public places. Unless we teach our children the right way to behave in different places then children and families will be made less than welcome in some places.

In our local pub the landlady encourages and welcomes families. There is a large outdoor play area, a small indoor area where colouring books etc are available and a pretty decent kids menu. But even she pulls her hair out sometimes at how some families behave. Mum/dad getting pissed in the corner whilst 2 or 3 kids aged from 2 to 9 run riot around the pub. And its these sorts of families that makes it difficult for the rest of us with well behaved kids to be able to go out and enjoy ourselves in different places without people pulling up their judgey pants.

So although we can blame cafe owners or business owners for not being 'child friendly' we maybe need to look at other parents for not having 'public friendly' kids? Socialising with your children from a young age should be as educational to your kids as learning to count or speak or identify colour. It's part of giving your children the tools to 'fit in' with the rest of society.

Do I think it is appropriate to have 7 toddlers singing in a cafe? I don't to be honest. Think it would be very annoying for both customers and staff. If they had spent the visit sat colouring in quietly or looking at books or playing with quiet toys then fair do's. But not singing.

Its a chicken and egg thing. We need to teach our kids to behave in public but first we need to take them there to do it. And for me 'child friendly/soft play centre's' are the worst place in the world to teach our children manners and respect and consideration. Fine for letting off steam but not for learning 'how to be' in public.

They weren't all singing. She's said that three times.

And it's "sitting" not "sat "

Just dont bother going back. Word of month is a powerful marketing tool: if they're that crap people will notice. No point wasting your time on anything else....food was crap anyway, why bother wasting your money on going back?

I cannot believe Emilythorne's
comments!!!

So it's discrimination for a nightclub to refuse entry to shabbily dressed people in tracksuits and trainers?

Or large groups of young men?

Or establishments to refuse to serve football fans?

Homeless people with offensive body odour?

A group of Neo-Nazi's?

@ hissing 'don't sit me near the kids'

I moved once when a woman sat near me with a toddler. She had a go a me. I had moved to be nearer the light because I was trying to read my paper but had forgotten my glasses. It was quite funny.

Okay kinda off topic but seriously: Does anyone truly believe three toddlers are capable of singing quietly in a cafe while being well behaved with the four other toddlers?

Looks at children, realised I have failed as a mother

Sugarmouse, none of your examples seem to involve protected characteristics under the equality act though.

Might be a good idea to check the menu before you enter? A lot of it was not necessarily your fault but complaining about lack of vegetarian options/kids foods when you didn't check the menu is not theirs. It costs a lot of money to have a wide menu because all that food has to be held in stock. Not saying I approve but that is the situation.

Parents can underestimate just how annoying our children can be to others. We become inured to it to a certain extent. Parents do not teach their children appropriate behaviour whilst eating out in so many cases. Many people find the every day noisy chaos of piles of children and parents pretty annoying. Just the amount of shuffling about, organising and re-organising of tables, chairs and food orders does create a bit of a kerfuffle that may not be evident to you because you are busy dealing with it.

"Parents can underestimate just how annoying our children can be to others." Never a truer word spoken.

Am properly laughing at EmilyT and her children who have all these rights!

Careful how you word that Mintyy, remember her children are suffering for equality just like Apartheid all over again. Not something to joke about. :(

A bit late to this thread, have only read the OP.

"but got a little high spirited in each other's company, started singing."

Sorry but your idea of a little high spirited behaviour could well be another persons idea of hell.

Kids are not impeccably behaved all the time, they can be illogical and very demanding and a little bit of consideration on the part of others can go a long way in helping parents to deal with difficult situations. I also think some parents need to realise that perhaps not every environment is suitable for their children, I like to think that adults are entitled to a bit of peace and quiet in places that are supposed to be ?relaxing? areas for adults to go to. Additionally, just because there is a kids menu it does not mean that any children being a 'little high spirited' would be tolerated by patrons or staff alike. Whether you like it not children, especially in large groups (and yours was a large group) are often noisy and on occasion very annoying if not properly supervised. I have lost count of the times I have seen the militant ?we have just as much right to be here? parents barrel into a previously calm restaurant or cafe like a wrecking ball destroying any ambience as ?Archie?, ?Lulu? , ?Oscar? and friends fight, run, scream and squabble over toys rendering any notion of a chilled out lunch/coffee impossible. I also think some parents seem to think that the staff in some cafes are stand in baby sitters while the parents have a good catch up over a coffee and a sticky bun. It?s a tough one. I think there needs to be a bit of compromise on both sides of the fence on this issue but on this occasion I think you are being unreasonable in your expectations and talk of 'revenge' makes you look a bit silly to be honest.

More of a response to the thread as a whole: Some people NEVER learn to behave in cafés/bars, end-of-story. The closest I have ever come to leaving a cafe was when two drama students were practicing two lines of dialogue over and over and over and over again, at full voice. I'm too cheap/greedy to leave my food though.

I work in a fairly well-heeled pub, yet I have told fully grown adults to stop playing tinny music on their laptop and to stop blowing full-blast and out of tune, into a recorder, and that's without even starting on the general rudeness/drunkenness. We have no children's menu (except on Sundays), no changing facilities, two high chairs, but still get quite a few babies in the afternoon shifts. Occasionally they're squally, but I think because our place doesn't appear child-friendly, parents are more aware of their children's behaviour? Long story short, the under-tens are often our most well-behaved customers...

My worst ever cafe encounter was having to listen to a very loud man telling his friend ALL his medical problems. Waaaaaay to much information. . I would have left but we had just started eating.

SameoldIggi-

Which characteristics are protected under the equality act then?

Surely gender must be? (Think young men being refused entry to clubs a lot more often than women).

Or political orientation? (Think a group of BNP members being refused entry somewhere).