A guide on how to talk to your children...have things come to this?

[INeedSomeSun]

DS got given a guide for parents today, on how to talk to your children. Apparantly 'children who talk at home achieve more at school'.
Some of the ideas are:

• Have a chat while you are in the car
  

-Walk & talk

• Turn off the telly at mealtimes
  
• Talk about school & things they are interested in
  

There's even a list of subjects you could 'start a conversation about'.

Really? Are things so bad that parents need a guide?

[Eyesunderarock]

Oh, and I agree about the stereotyping and assumptions.
We lived in an economically-deprived town, huge unemployment and we lived in one of the worst areas. OH was a SAHP and we didn't have a lot of 'consumer goods' He also dressed like the Oxfam devotee he is.
For some reason the HV got it into her head that OH lacked education and thus couldn't get a job, so she started going on about access courses.
Took him a while to work out what she was suggesting, it didn't compute and he was confused.
But on her next visit, she came with leaflets and he quietly pointed out that he had 4 A levels, an Oxford double First and a Doctorate. So what sort of further education did she think would be useful?
Then he asked her about dry skin on DD, which he did want advice on.

It's too easy to see the trappings and jump to an inaccurate conclusion.

[ouryve]

Unfortunately, I do see lots of parents who can be quite engrossed in talking to each other, but only ever at their kids, when the kids are running off or being too slow, or whatever.

And it starts young. I remember sitting in waiting rooms at baby clinic with my kids sat sideways on my lap, so they could look around and at me. Not many parents did this. Most sat their babies facing outwards and talked to their friends. (Ironic that my boys both have social communication disorders, but hey ho!)

They'd probably just screw the leaflet up, though. Even though it sounds so obvious, it's one of those typical things that wouldn't even reach the people who really need it.

[Eyesunderarock]

'Or they have a communication disorder.'

Yes, but if you offer all an enriched linguistic environment when young, then most will thrive and you can spend the limited time and resources in school targeting help effectively to those that need it.

[cory]

zzzzz Thu 20-Jun-13 10:20:15
"I think there is a lot of stereotyping being bandied about. We live in an incredibly language rich enviroment and frankly unless children are subjected to serious levels of isolation and abuse they are likely to acquire language adequate to their surroundings (so vocabulary and sentence structure in line with those that care for them). "

Which is precisely what people are worried about. Language adequate to your surroundings is not necessarily a great tool for social mobility.

It is a very real fact that children who get early opportunities to practise adult conversation and thinking skills will do better at school, almost certainly end up in higher sets with consequent greater chances of getting good exam grades, and will do better at interview.

This doesn't mean parents have to be highly educated themselves: my dad's parents came from a very working class background with little formal education but because they always involved him in family discussions he developed thinking and arguing skills from an early age (and was able to modify his accent later).

Noone is saying that NT children will end up with aphasia.

[pinkballetflats]

And then you have the numerous threads about "loud parenting" here on musket ripping parents apart for parents talking to their kids. In sure that sometimes people are being showy and loud etc...but for those of us that do have a running commentary with our children it doesn't help to know we're likely being judged when out and about.

[piprabbit]

It's not just about talking to/at your children. It's about listening to what they say and having a conversation.
Too many parents talk to their children in a series of instructions rather than (even occasionally) just nattering about stuff.
Even non-verbal babies enjoy a good conversation, taking turns, responding to each other's expressions and sounds.

.

[Eyesunderarock]

There are two fantastic childminders at our school, neither of them highly educated but the level of interaction and conversation they offer the children they care for is lovely to see in action.

[cory]

I have friends, well educated people who have long involved conversations with each other and with friends, yet would never think of involving their 11yo in a family discussion. They speak to him as to a small child, very lovingly, but never in a real adult exchange of ideas. There is no doubt that it has had an effect on his language skills and on his general willingness to think and reason. Other children tend to think he is much younger than he is.

[cory]

Yup, series of instructions is what I was after.

[Birdsgottafly]

"We live in an incredibly language rich enviroment"

Baby's and children live in the environment created by their parents. If there is little interaction, then the child often grows up in an environment rich with nothing.

We mix with other family's who share the same values as us, so many on MN may not come across parents who are silent with their baby and each other.

One of the courses that i run for parents is Webster Stratton, which teaches why a "running commentary" works well for children, it combines other factors.

I met a little girl who barely spoke but communicate partly through makaton, which she had picked up from "Something Special", her brothers did not speak, within two months of being in Foster Care, they were as verbal as you would expect, in a child without SN.

Children can often appear as having disabilities when SS first get involved, it then proves to be purely environmental

It is dis-pairing that many on MN seem to want to deny that there are children being damaged by a deliberate lack of care.

I think that technology is now having an effect on males, in particular.

[ouryve]

And agreeing that being forward facing in a pushchair doesn't have to preclude conversation. DS1 always liked looking at the world around him and both boys would simply look up at me if they wanted my reaction to something.

[Bonsoir]

I have always consulted DD about things that concern her. This is a very alien concept to French parents and DP was very skeptical at first. However, now she is 8 and able to take on board the complex choices available to her and rapidly take ownership of decisions that affect her he is entirely won over as he sees how much easier it is to parent a child brought up this way than DCs brought up expected to follow adult instructions, as the DSSs were.

[mrsjay]

Too many parents talk to their children in a series of instructions rather than (even occasionally) just nattering about stuff.

that dd2 is still in school and she witters natters about who is going out with who what drama happened at school etc I think even if it bores you to tears that being interested in the small stuff means they will be comfy talking about the bigger stuff

and that video is fab

[cory]

zzzzz, how do we know that the government are worried about actual language delay?

might they not simply be thinking about social mobility?

there is a big gap between actual SN and failing to get any job interviews

there are plenty of people who can technically speak but cannot hold their own in a discussion or present themselves to a potential employer

these things matter too

[mrsjay]

the truth is that most children crawl in there own sweet time, not as a result of superior parenting.

not 1 person on this thread suggested superior parenting or that they were superior and you know what yes children will develop these things because they are human and most humans learn to crawl and walk and talk this is not what we are talking about letting children develop without guidance and conversation has a huge impact on them ime

[ouryve]

This doesn't mean parents have to be highly educated themselves: my dad's parents came from a very working class background with little formal education but because they always involved him in family discussions he developed thinking and arguing skills from an early age (and was able to modify his accent later).

Quite. There's a dad I see regularly - looks like a bit of a carpet carrier - strong local accent - definitely not educated. He's always chatting with his daughter, though, about all sorts of topics, including the hedgerows around the school field, the pigeons flying around the allotments and anything else that seems to come to mind.

[curryeater]

I don't think intelligent parenting necessarily has anything to do with class or formal education. I know a very posh Oxford graduate mother who learnt at a parenting class run by the council that you should always use "please" and "thank you" with small children to encourage them to do the same. It blew my mind that it came as a surprise to her that you model what you want to see. Dutifully, she informed her husband that this is what you should do, and they do, but the sad part is she feels embarrassed doing so in front of her own mother who she thinks is despising her for being polite to a toddler

[wordfactory]

I think a lot of it is personality.

I have twins. They have been brought up with me nattering away about everyhting and anything (in two languages!)...

DD is a great conversationalist, chatty, warm, engaging. DS is quiet. Hate small talk...

[mrsjay]

thats quite sad curryeater that this grandparent thinks that, some folk forget that babies and toddlers are little people too,

[Onetwo34]

Summershere Gosh, what has the local HV / SS said when your parents reported the people next door with a son who only has a bin to play with, and who they shout so much at daily that your parents feel forced to actually move?

[JJXM]

My DS is 3.2 years old and I have been talking to him since before he was born. I've tried to encourage him but as he refuses to make eye contact, it's proving to be impossible. We now have a younger DD and the differences are so stark that it is almost like they are different species.

We're going to his diagnosis meeting tomorrow where he will be diagnosed with severe autism. We've been waiting a year for speech therapy and are still waiting.

Btw I have a PhD in languages.

[Biscuitsareme]

zzzzzzzzzzz it depends how you define 'speech and language delay'. In order to do well at secondary and higher education children need above average reading, writing, speaking and thinking skills. Those who are not involved in conversation much at home, are barked at rather than listened to, and don't see their parents model respectful adult conversation, are less likely to do well in those areas and so lag behind. They may not be 'clinically delayed' but are unlikely to make good communicators, which is essential in most better paid job sectors. So they do lose out. Also, it's a real shame for children to be treated in such a way. I wonder what the link is with poor self esteem.