AIBU to start a thread discussing the word Cunt?

[FeegleFion]

I know before I start, that there will be a lot of you who really disagree with using the word Cunt.

I want to start a discussion about it, as I personally, feel that using the word in a positive manner is to be encouraged.

I am from Glasgow and I use/ have always used the word as a term of affection "You're a good wee cunt you".

I wanted to start this thread because I have just come across the following on a Women's Rights forum and I really hope to change negative opinion and association:

CUNT

Considered to be the most vile, obscene and vulgar 'swear word' in the English language, the word 'Cunt' in the vernacular means vagina.
As if that is not indication enough why it is considered so vile in the vagina-hating Patriarchy, the word itself was originally a term of respect and reverence for a powerful, spiritually enlightened woman.

'Cunt' derives from 'Kunda' or 'Cunti', the Oriental Great Goddess.
She was the Great Yoni of the Universe, where all life came from and to where all life returned for renewal.

From this same word came the words country, kin and kind.

So, for your delectation, rumination and reasoned discussion, I give you, the word Cunt discuss.

[FeegleFion]

Worra Ye awright ya good wee cunt ye? Is that brew going spare?

It's not going exactly how I'd hoped, however, that is of course the beauty of starting a thread on MN

[FeegleFion]

mrsjay
"I might just have to give them a Glaswegian kiss (since they also seen to be fond of this particular endearment in Glasgow too)"

"usually went hand in hand with YA CUNT"

Only if you weren't a good wee Cunt mrsjay

To clarify, I have never proffered anybody a 'malky' (AKA Glesga kiss).

[THERhubarb]

Look 'ere our kid, stop cocking about or I'll break yer legs.

I think you have kind of just proved that the word 'cunt' is not only used in an abusive setting but also in an aggressive setting. That it is also used in a lighthearted context in Scotland is not surprising as that's just their sense of humour, it's an aggressive humour (we have it up North too) but in my eyes, that doesn't necessarily make the vocabularly right.

My vagina is not aggressive, it is not violent, it is not ugly or debasing or insulting. Everyone has come out of a vagina and perhaps that is why men use it as such a misogynistic insult, it's partly denial that they were ever born from a vagina. To them it has become hateful, an organ that they feel the need to abuse and ridicule.

I don't really want to be a part of that. I don't think the word will ever be reclaimed. All that will happen is that men will feel more justified in using it as their hateful insults.

[THERhubarb]

(yes, I realise I put an extra letter in vocabulary)

[Sheshelob]

Are the 'passive aggressive' comments aimed at me?

I wasn't meaning to derail the thread, with my Star Wars analogy, nor split hairs. But I also won't be popped on anyone's knee and told the Story of Womyn, like I don't know it. It got my goat, so I mocked it.

I am a feminist and am proud to be one. I also use the word cunt in my every day language, though never in reference to my vagina.

Cunt is not hate speech, so I see no problem with using it.

[OhTiger]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading this debate.

I use the word frequently, but only among close friends.

My biggest worry is, that if it is anti-feminist to use it, what the fuck will I call my ex husband? The only satisfying way to describe him is as 'a massive cunt'. It's nice and clear for everyone, and no other word does it as well.

[THERhubarb]

That's precisely what I mean.

The word cunt is primarily used as the worst insult you can think of, saved up for particularly nasty specimens of humanity. It's worse than calling someone a dick, a prick or a cock.

Does it not make you wonder why a woman's genitalia should be used as the worst insult used to describe the lowest scum? Is that not the opposite of what feminism is about?

[FeegleFion]

THERhubarb That's an excellent point.

I, agree, that the Scottish sense of humour (specifically, Glaswegian, as I can't attest to know about SOH of any other region) is aggressive.

In fact, the colloquialism that I've grown up with, could justifiably be described as aggressive but we are a very friendly bunch and (for the most part) mean no offence.

Growing up, I used words and phrases that I had no idea had such negative connotations for many.

Maybe this explains why, for me, now that I do know the origins of Cunt, I find it inoffensive and a word that I think should be used by women more (though not to insult) as I believe, the more we use it, the less power it has to be used to offend.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

I like the word. I think it has been reclaimed. You fucking cunt is not derogatory to the act of fucking itself or abusive to fanjos. You cow isn't really offensive to cows, etc.

[FeegleFion]

SheShelob I personally think your retorts have been witty.

For me, there are posters who are offering reasoned argument, to explain why the word is off limits for them and it's the posters who won't accept that we can and will continue to discuss and debate such issues that are aggressive.

[curlew]

"Cunt is not hate speech, so I see no problem with using it."

But do you acknowledge that other people do, and why they do?

[FeegleFion]

And I fully agree, that to reclaim the word, it should not be used in context to describe people who are least favourable to us.

Whenever my DP uses any of the 'cunt' 'twat' etc insults toward someone, I normally say something along the lines of "but a cunt is beautiful, warm and accommodating, don't you mean penis"

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

I'll use the word cunt quite factually too. So I might say to dh, 'God, my cunt is sore' after giving birth. If you use the work cunt as a descriptive or naming term it reclaims the word. A cow is first and foremost the name of an animal. The term can be used as a term to insult someone. I feel the sane way about cunt as a word. It is not inherently offensive to me.

[THERhubarb]

But Feegle, I grew up using the words "coloured", "half-caste", "backwards", "mentally disabled" and "retarded". Those words were used all the time in general conversation and I had no idea that they would be considered offensive.

I now know the origins of those words and I have heard them being used as derogatory insults of the worst kind, designed to have maximum impact upon their victim. In other words, I was educated as to their real meaning and so I stopped using the words.

My background does not excuse my behaviour.

I do not think you can reclaim the word. As stated with the argument over the word "nigger". It has not been successfully reclaimed by the black community despite many attempts because half the black community still associate the word with oppression and violence and so refuse to use it. Also, no-one in the white community would ever dare to utter it.

Same with cunt. You would get some women who would voraciously defend their right to use it but others would only associate the word with aggression and misogynistic oppression and so would refuse to associate themselves with it. Those men who have more sense, would be too afraid to use it for fear of upsetting women and being labelled as sexists.

I'm afraid it can never be reclaimed and maybe that's a good thing. Phonetically speaking it's quite a gutteral sounding word, quite germanic really and not at all pleasant sounding.

[Sheshelob]

I agree property. It has lost it's power as hate speech, which I understand it used to have.

If someone daubed "cunt" on the side of my house, I wouldn't assume it was specifically aimed at me as a woman."Whore" or "Slut" would cut deeper, as there would be no doubt that, as the only woman in my household, it was aggressively aimed at me.

The way I see it, cunt is as unisex as arsehole, just a step up. Slut and whore are far more pernicious.

[Sheshelob]

*Its

[THERhubarb]

property yes, I think the only way you can reclaim a word is to start using it in its literal meaning. If you continue to use it as an insult then you are simply not reclaiming it but encouraging the misogynistic attitude that women's genitalia are so horrendous that words used to describe them are insulting.

If you use the word cunt in a factual context you have half a chance.

[curlew]

Agree, rhubarb.

[FeegleFion]

I'm really not using my background to excuse the use of the word cunt. However, for me, it's not the same as using any of the names to describe people of colour.

Maybe it's because I have a cunt, that I feel I am within my rights to use it.

It is a word (I think I mentioned up thread? Not sure) that in Glasgow I would expect someone to use as a greeting only for close friends/ family. Not with the general populace.

[FeegleFion]

And I totally agree with using it factually.

I agree, also, that being called a whore or slut would affect me much more.

[THERhubarb]

Those black people who tried to reclaim the word nigger would say that they have a right to use it as they are black. Some black people disagreed with them and plenty of white people knew damn well that they were NOT entitled to use the word in any context whatsoever.

I use the word 'dick' and 'cock' even though I don't have one.

Look, I think if you use it in your own cultural context, or as an in-joke then fine. However I don't agree with its liberal usage because not everyone gets the joke, not everyone feels the same way and not everyone wants to be on the receiving end of a gender-based insult.

I said earlier that I wouldn't use the word 'cock' as a term of endearment of anyone who is not familiar with the context. Same here.

[mrsjay]

Only if you weren't a good wee Cunt mrsjay

oh yes My dad often said aye he is an awright wee cunt

I wonder when the words like you said feegle will be reclaimed as ok to say to or about another woman whore slut or a new word Skank when will that become ok cos I dont think it will,

[Sheshelob]

I respect your view, Rhubarb, but I disagree. I think there is a linguistic difference, isn't there, between a slur (racial, misogynistic, homophobic) and crude slang? Cunt falls into slang for me, especially in its use in the UK. In the US, it is way more gender-targeted, but not here.

I guess fundamentally I don't like the idea that there is a swear word I am not allowed to use if I am going to be an 'informed' feminist. The guttural sound is what makes it the perfect swear word - like cock or prick or fuck. Harsh consonants to emphasise the point.

Doesn't this just come down to whether you like swearing or not?

[BusinessOfFerrets]

This abhorrent misogynistic slur is not used on mumsnet for reclamation purposes whatsoever: it is used merely to attention-seek (nearly always by the 'hip' feminists).

[FeegleFion]

I respect your stance, fully, THERhubarb