my sister's new boyfriend touches women inappropriately.

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Just wondering what people think about this. My sister has a new boyfriend, following a painful divorce. She is very pleased to have met someone and desperate to make it work. This guy is OK, however, he persistently touches women in a completely inappropriate manner. The kind of thing I means is he'll put his hand on your back and then let it drop down 'brushing' your bum. He will 'brush' your boob as he kisses you hello/good bye. Etc. I am not the only person to have noticed this!

I have mentioned this to my sister, and she tells me she has had a word with her boyfriend, pointed out that he makes people uncomfortable. She says that he doesn't know he's doing it - and he doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. Can it really be an accident??

Anyway, my main concern is that my sister has young daughters and it looks like this guy is going to be their stepfather. How can we be sure that he won't do it to them? Am I worrying about nothing? Do we just shrug it off? That seems to be the feeling within my family, don't rock the boat ... but I just don't feel OK about it. Am I being unreasonable? What would you do?

I will make a fuss. That's just it - why should I feel shit when he touches my tits?!!

I think it's because any other time someone does it on purpose it's because you've indicated it's ok or it's what you want. He's playing on that 'shame' too.

It makes you feel like you might've somehow encouraged it and also just the plain fact that it's a breach of privacy on an intimate level. That's bound to feel shit in itself!

(just so it's clear I'm in no way saying he's being led on by anyone...just that it's easy to feel bit shocked/embarrassed at the exact moment it happens...before you think to say anything. Then the moment's passed and he's stopped).

Make a fuss. Say something, calmly but loudly, in a low steady voice.

"Do not touch my breast. You have done this before and I want you to stop"

You will feel excellent when you do. Believe me.

or

How (fucking) dare you touch me again?

I wouldn't be kissing my sister's boyfriend when I met him so he wouldn't get the chance to grope me.
He sounds cringy. I agree with stressing to her it isn't appropriate behaviour and is demeaning to women and creepy and loudly complaining if he does touch you up.
I agree that if it was accidental he'd also be feeling up the blokes and these men rarely do.

Actually, interesting you should say that 2rebecca because that is one of the points of defense my sister makes ie he is tactile with men too. Which is true. But there's tactile and inappropriate isn't there. And interestingly, he has never touched DH's bum and when DH was telling me to ignore it, I did suggest to him in strong terms that he wouldn't say that if he had!!

How old are your nieces?

Won't say exactly in case I out myself but approaching puberty essentially. In other words, I think 'safe' right now ... but wonder for how long? As I said, members of my family think I am over-reacting and this makes me question myself too (including even whether I am making it up/imagining it)! I don't know why as they say he does it to them too and I have NEVER met anyone before who has touched my tits/bum once, let alone repeatedly. I have no reason to make it up, as I wish this relationship could work for my sister. God, sound like I'm convincing myself now!

'Get your hand off my tit you filthy perv (as loudly as possible), everybody's saying your only going out with x so you can molest her kids so watch those hands, we have social services watching you creep'.

He'll be less likely to abuse them if he thinks everybody is watching him and that there will be serious consequences. He'll also keep his hands to himself if he fears the consequences of touching you.

You also need to tell your sister to stop being so desperate, point out that he feels everybody up and that probably includes or will soon include her children which makes her a terrible mother to expose them to that. Tell her you'll be informing ss to keep an eye on him because she's too blinded by desperation to bother protecting her kids.

There's no point in pussyfooting around creeps or mothers who expose their children to them. Other peoples right not to be abused is far more important than the feelings of those abusing or their enablers. Your sister needs to know that if he touches them inappropriately, she is just as responsible for knowingly setting him on them. Be blunt, be harsh and don't be afraid to scare the pair of them with the authorities.

Even if he is naturally tactile if you tell him you don't like the casual touching then he should stop doing it out of respect. Your wish not to be casually touched should be more important than his wish to casually touch people.
I'd stop kissing him though, he isn't family yet why cuddle and kiss him?

I would speak to her daughters and tell them that he has done this to you and ask whether he has done it to them. You should be able to tell from their expressions if they know exactly what you're talking about. If they deny it just say, "Well, he's been doing it to a lot of people so if he does it to you, get out of the room and let me know as soon as you can."

I am not sure if I need to clarify this, but I will. He has never actually grabbed a tit as such. He just(!?) brushes my tits, let's his hand brush my bum as it falls down my back, kisses or even actually caresses my cheek in a way that NO man other than my DH would do. It's very subtle - but highly noticeable because it's so unusual and so consistent. Don't know why I need to clarify the subtlety but I guess again, because I worry I am over-reacting to something that is harmless. As I say, I sort of don't care, I don't live with the creep or see him that often, but I do care for my darling nieces.

Well you could always pull out of the hug the second his hand moves down/slap his hand off the second it 'just' brushes your boob?

Don't let him get close enough to do any of it.

When he goes to kiss to say hello/goodbye put your hands out very obviously and tell him why you're not prepared to anymore. Ie, you make me feel uncomfortable and I'd rather take a step back.

It doesn't matter if other women including your sister think it's harmless. You don't like it so you don't have to caress him if you don't want to. I'd just say "sorry i'm not a huggy person" if he complains that you hug your sister say in a puzzled voice "but she's my sister you're NOT my sister"
I would be asking your sister to make clear to her daughters that they don't have to hug him if they don't want to.
My son doesn't hug my husband (his stepfather) and my stepkids don't hug me (they are now over 18 and my stepson sometimes shakes hands but I've never wanted to push the physical huggy stuff a smile and a wave is fine)
I find that people who want to push the touchy feely stuff are the ones I'm most reluctant to go near anyway.
As your nieces get older they'll be able to tell him to get lost themselves. You "brush past" a 14 year old girl's breasts at your peril!

What she said ^

I do only hug my mum, DP & DS. (My tolerance for people in my personal space is quite low...).

He can't make you hug him or that would draw attention to the issue.

Even better, you could say "seeing as you can't stop accidently touching my tits and arse, I'd rather not"

Don't let him kiss you hello/goodbye. Go for a formal handshake instead and make sure your hand has some nice mucous/wee/preferably both on it. Smile innocently.

"let's his hand brush my bum as it falls down my back,"

A social greeting should not involve hands falling down your back, they shouldn't stray past your shoulders. Nor should it involve any caressing of cheeks - of either variety.

He's being deeply inappropriate and he knows it.

Ew I bet he's one of those pervs on the train that do this sort of thing shudder

A guy in my social circle was a bit like this. Just slightly overly tactile and not all that respectful of personal boundaries. None of the women in our group had ever experienced him trying to take things further or doing anything that was actually harmful, but we all felt a bit uncomfortable with how he behaved. One of the women had nicknamed him "Sleazy Steve" because of this, and the nickname accidentally got shared with our whole social group and with the guy himself. Fortunately, he took it it in good humour, and the nickname completely stuck, so now everyone calls him this. It actually worked to moderate his behaviour as it gave everyone a 'safe' way to call him on it in public - i.e. if he had cornered someone at a party and was getting a bit intense, it was easy enough for one of us to march up and say "just come to rescue you from Sleazy Steve". It seems to have helped him to recognise when he was overstepping the line, as he has toned things down a lot now.

Is there a way that you can create a similar nickname with the other women in your family/friends?

Done with humour it puts your message across in just a powerful a way as getting cross with him, but is a way of managing the relationship with your sister, for example, that does not cause as much strain.

Been lurking. I see your point Thistledew about making it easier for people to tell Sleazy Steve to back off but why should the perpetrator be let down gently with humour. He should be mortified that he's got the nickname "Sleazy"

In his case, I think he just genuinely didn't realise when he was overstepping boundaries - he sometimes comes across as having slight autistic traits. As I said, even when he was alone with a woman his behaviour didn't become worse and you definitely did not worry about being alone with him, so I think it was kinder to respond to him with humour than anger.

I think that women are reluctant to use humour to deal with situations like this because we are so often told that we need to 'take a joke' or 'lighten up' about situations, particularly of sexual harassment that make us feel uncomfortable. But what I suggest is a bit different. It is not about the use of humour meaning that you end up as the butt of the joke, but that you use it to your advantage and make the person who is offending against you into the butt of the joke. Humour is a powerful weapon. Use it sparingly and it can be a way to wrest the control of the situation back to your favour.

My xh was very tactile with women, I didn't know this until he grabbed a sixteen year old friends boobs in front of me. I was livid, I warned him that although she was alright with it (?) When she got older and realised it was unacceptable, she could go to the police. He never did it again.

He was always leaning over my neices (when I wasn't there). Then I found out, after we split up, that he had groped my cousins boobs aswell.

Some men don't seem to be able to understand what is unacceptable. I even got to the point where I hated him shoving his hand down my top.

I think the best thing you can do is loudly tell him to fuck off.

I absolutely see your point Thistle but I'm in the ' tell him to fuck off' group. I have been on the receiving end of this behaviour and worse as a child so I just can't bring myself to use humour at all in this situation as I just don't find anything about it humorous .

Good that your friend has responded and toned down his behaviour