to be disappointed with Brown Owl

[parakeet]

My 7-year-old daughter has just returned from her first Brownie camp sleep over. She enjoyed it during the day but when she came home the next day she tearfully told us that she had got upset at night and Brown Owl (the leader) wasn't very nice to her.

They were all staying in a kind of lodge with a dormitory for about 15 girls and a separate bedroom for the leaders. Apparently she went into the kitchen crying to Brown Owl several times and she said to her crossly "I don't want to hear it." There were apparently a couple of "section leaders" - older teenage girls - there too, who were nice to her, but she still seems to have been quite upset and now says she doesn't want to go on the next sleepover.

I realise these Brownie leaders do all this voluntarily, and I am very grateful to them for all their sterling work. Yet I would have expected Brown Owl to have comforted a crying and homesick 7-year-old, not been dismissive. AIBU?

Surely the answer is for you to get CRB checked and attend the next camp yourself as a helper? Staying overnight in the church hall to ensure your dd (and others) get all the attention they need. Seeing as you consider the other volunteers don't come up to your standards and all.

I agree with kerala, why not go along yourself next time as a parent helper? My DH did this for DS1's first beaver camp last year and really enjoyed it - he's going again this year.

That seems like a better solution than your DD missing out on the next one.

Nice try, kerala, but not sure about the last bit of your post. It's a bit nerve racking for some people sending their kids away from home for the first time on something like this, and I understand where the OP is coming from.

parakeet, why do I do it? Because there is nothing more rewarding than knowing that you have made a difference in a child's life. It's an extension of being a parent really, but on a bigger scale.

Seeing a child like your DD grow in the space of a single weekend, or even an hour one evening, is little short of magic. Multiply that by 10, 20 or 30 and the "job satisfaction" is enormous even if the pay's crap.

I will be very interested to know what Brown Owl says, so please do report back. I am certainly not above admitting that I misjudged a situation and apologising for that.

Why do I do it, parakeet?

Because I was so disappointed as a Brownie not to go away on holiday, and because you are letting these girls get some great new experiences and to grow and be challenged. Guiding is a great opportunity open to so many girls from all walks of life.

(Another Brown Owl)

Parakeet, I do it because it's good fun and the girls have a blast. Brownie holidays are really tough though... little girls (often on their first time away overnight without family), full on activities, catering, health and hygiene.
The girls make it back to school on Monday but I always need to take the Monday (and sometimes the Tuesday) off work. I will not do single night sleepovers because of the sleep issues. After two or three nights the girls are into a good routine but the first night is always really tough: they do find it hard to get to sleep (especially in rooms with lots of girls where one or two giggling/chatting will keep the others awake to the point of great overtiredness).
....which is why I do think you need a chat with the Brown Owl. I would hate to think a parent was feeling the way you are about me, though I do tell the parents almost every year that I have lost my cool after midnight with the silliness in the big dorm..... btw, I do hug as necessary in a group environment. This year one little girl mad her way past the other leaders' room to come and find me in the middle of the night, and I had to walk her back down to the other room to wake another leader too, but she did get a good hug and a glass of warm milk.

Well in previous brownie holidays, the girls didn't keep me up all night! I enjoyed the weekend but I did need some rest time. The other guiders were super at taking over for me. But I hadn't realised how much it would take out of me, doing the catering, then the dishes, then preping the next meal with the girls.

One guider had a brilliant sleep the whole weekend as she slept through everything! I was quite jealous.

That would be me Groovee, I managed to sleep through everything,including all the other Leaders in my room getting up and dressed in the early morning to set up for breakfast. I was very apologetic but they reckoned I obviously needed the sleep so had left me to it!

Seeing as you consider the other volunteers don't come up to your standards and all.

What a snidey comment. Does the fact that these people have volunteered for the job mean that they are above any kind of criticism or question when taking care of other peoples' children? That's a worrying path to go down IMO, whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular situation.

Thanks for the replies to my question about why you do it, it's wonderful and awe-inspiring to hear.

QTS that sounds awful , it is so reassuring to hear how different things are now and how caring the leaders are on this thread.

I was petrified by Brown Owl , I remember that on the one camp I dared to go on she made us all have a spoonful of syrup of figs every night and then in the morning we had to sit on the loo until we had " been" if you hadn't "been " you weren't allowed to take part in the activity of the day They were also strong believers in smacking and threatened us with Brown Owls belt.

There were no teenage leaders either just middle aged single women, actually I think the two main leaders were partners but probably were unable to be open about that in those days .

I remember it as if it was yesterday I did ask dm once why she sent me and she said the women made her feel that she was over protective and also said both to me and dm that if I didn't go to the camp I couldn't continue to attend I wanted to keep going so she said yes but apparently as soon as I got of the bus she knew something had gone wrong as I was white as a sheet and hardly spoke for 24 hours ( most unusual!)I never went back .

Snidely? Hilarious. Those moaning about volunteers who give up their time to give other people's kids great experiences now that's snidely. Don't like how they do it do it yourself.

iPad autocorrects to snidely surely is there is no l? Still great word to describe the moaners.

As a Brown Owl myself, I agree with all the comments - a few tears at night IS a minor issue - it happens all the time, but we've never had to call parents. and you must get both sides of the story.

I would encourge your DD to go again, at least once. She'll be more confident the next time - will know the drill, and what to expect. The girls have such a great time on sleepovers, and even those that have a little cry EVERY time we do a sleepover come back for more time after time!

I think these volunteers are amazing. My lovely friend is a guide leader (her dds tiny) and does an amazing job. She got an email of complaint from a mother her end of term session wasn't structured enough apparently. My friend had done a chill out evening that the guides loved. She was quite upset by that email. Wtaf did that mother think she was doing being so critical. My friend pays babysitters to run that guide group. Was hopping on her behalf.

OP here with the update as requested. I don't want to give too many details in case any of the leaders involved happen to read this and recognise my daughter but here's what I can say.

Daughter went in a few times to the kitchen crying and saying she wanted me. They took it in turns giving comfort. It sounds like on the last occasion Brown Owl might have been a bit shorter with my daughter than I would have hoped for, but I can understand that, given what an exhausting day they had all had. Also, if that is what happened on the last occasion, then it sounds like it might have worked, as a strategy, at keeping her in bed.

On the plus side, apparently the whole episode lasted only a short while, around ten minutes, so given her overall enjoyment of the weekend, I'd be inclined to let her go on the next one if she says she wants to. If she doesn't, however, I won't try to persuade her. Thanks again for all the constructive advice.

Thanks for the update parakeet. It sounds pretty well par for the course, to be honest. Let's hope she's happy to go on the next sleepover.

Glad you have managed to speak to BO and sort out what happened.

I think Guiders are mad (in a nice way).
They organised a trip to Legoland last year, leave about 6am & back around 10pm (we live 4 hours drive away). There was copious puking both ways. MAD, I tell you, Mad!!

I still feel bad for not buying them lots of wine & chocolates afterwards.

Don't blow it out of proportion, OP. Have you really never snapped at your own child to get the Fig back into bed NOW...?

Great update!!

Read with interest as I am a leader in training. Thanks for the update. As you said from the beginning that you would go in with the intention of judging whether dd is mature enough for the next camp rather than shouting and screaming to find ou why brown owl mistreated your little darling I don't think it was unreasonable to ask.

I hope your dd goes on the next trip as 10 mins homesickness in a weekend of fun is a pretty good ratio!

Sorry late to this tread so maybe OP will not reply. Interesting thread, as a Brownie leader we encourage all our girls to find us if they are homesick. We don't want anyone upset on their own. But sometimes kind firmness works in getting girls to settle. If a girl was very upset and doesn't settle, (we haven't had to do this) we would ring the parents to come and get them. Would you have preferred the brown owl to have rang you to collect your daughter OP? would you have been happy to do that at midnight, 3 am ? These are times we have had girls wake up upset, luckily a few kind words and promise to ring mum in the morning, and they were back asleep.
And yes completely exhausting, before pack holiday twenty hour at least a week making props, buying, preparing crafts and resourses for games/quizs, badges to sort who is due what badge level. On the day, two cars of stuff to take, holiday house to set up for theme, plus first aid room.
Forms to sort. Home contact emailed/telephoned.
Then a twelve hour full in day, no breaks, maybe a cup of tea and biscuit on our own after lights out, but this is interrupted maybe a dozen times as we have girls in and out of bed. Broken nights sleep. Repeat next day, then two hour clean of holiday home, packing car and trailer etc home unpack. Then two days in bed to recover and maybe one of the twenty parents might send an email to thank us.
Why do we do it, because we see the girls having a brilliant time and also grow in confidence because of it. It is also a chance to get to know the girls and for the girls to develop friendships.
I wouldn't make a big deal out of it OP if your daughter is not ready to stay away yet, she is young at seven do not make her. Does her pack have day events, sign her up for those instead. At nine and ten she will be more mature and able to cope without you.