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Original poster

To say something to this babies mum (a friend)

97 replies

HopAndStop · 15/06/2013 14:08

A friend I knew reasonably well before she had DS 2 months ago, and I now see 2-3 times a week seems to be struggling
Her partner has a child from a previous relationship and she is a lot younger than him so I think she feels 'he knows best' and has said a lot of things like 'DP told me we had to put him in his own room from day 1, he knows already from DD' and similar.

We met up yesterday and she ended up crying saying he just won't stop crying, and he won't sleep. I asked what he's usually like going to sleep, and she said she puts him in his room, closes the door so she can't hear him then goes to see DP as he needs to relax after work. Apparently he usually cries for 20 mins-an hour but last night was still crying after 2 hours and she said 'I just get really annoyed at him if I have to hear him crying for ages' (but she seemed upset not angry with him)

I said that I ended up having to co sleep with DD as she wouldn't settle herself so not to worry that he's being unusually clingy, and that he might just need a bit of reassurance from her popping back into the room when he's still crying every few minutes while he's this young so he knows that she's still around, but she said 'DP said they taught DD from day 1 that she couldn't get her own way by crying, so I don't want him to learn bad habits'

Is there anything I can say to help, or should I just listen and let her work out what to do for herself?

OP posts:
Twattybollocks · 15/06/2013 18:04

Honestly, her dh sounds like a class a bastard. Babies are supposed to cry when they need something, their parents are programmed to find that cry distressing so that they are motivated to respond to the cry.

Original poster
HopAndStop · 15/06/2013 18:04

Sorry for slow update I read replies but didn't get around to posting. I phoned her about half hour ago to ask how last night went, said i've

OP posts:
McNewPants2013 · 15/06/2013 18:06

No wonder his previous partner left him, is he controlling in other area as well.

Original poster
HopAndStop · 15/06/2013 18:10

Been thinking about it and think maybe DP had different advice a few years back as I double checked and everywhere seems to say not to leave them crying until at least 6 months as it's harmful to them, and said it might be an idea to talk to the health visitor or mine ( texted name after) as she'd been good explaining sleep to me early on.I don't think it went down great to be honest, she said he only took about half hour again last night, but we arranged to meet up on Mon for coffee so will direct her to post on here once this thread has floated down the pages by.then x

OP posts:
Fairylea · 15/06/2013 18:53

So if she's leaving him for hours to cry himself to sleep, what happens when he wakes in the night? Are they feeding him / responding to him then? Or is it a case of leaving him to scream etc all night until her abusive dh "lets" her see to dc??

I'm horrified. Poor baby.

Your friend is being controlled. Her dh is abusive and her ds is being neglected. I feel for you being in a difficult situation but you need to tell her how awful this is for her and for ds and direct her here or to a health visitor.

FeegleFion · 15/06/2013 19:09

God, I hope to fuck they are seeing to his needs through the night.

If they aren't, there is a definite case to be seeking further support from agencies such as SS. And OP, that support can't be left to see how it goes.

You must act now, if this is the case!

SusuwatariToes · 15/06/2013 19:22

I hope you don't need to go as far as reporting them or anything.

Even though she didn't seem to react well to what you were saying, maybe it has planted the idea in her mine and she will think more carefully or even look into it herself.

Hopefully you can talk more about it on Monday, be careful not to say anything that will set her on the defensive though.

jammiedonut · 15/06/2013 19:33

I don't think they are deliberately neglecting their child, more they are unaware of the damage they are doing by ignoring him. How many of us have been told that we will spoil or children or making a god for own backs by cuddling them or comforting them when they cry? It's not the right advice but unfortunately we are bombarded with it from relatives, friends etc leading to situations like this. Also, if her dp did this with dd and nothing 'bad' happened he may be very reluctant to hear that this is wrong.
Why don't you print off this thread and or have a look at some studies/ articles that deal with newborns and bedtime routines and leave them with her. You have to tread extremely carefully as if you go in too strong you risk completely alienating your friend and there will be absolutely no way to offer support to her child when he clearly needs it.

beautybox2 · 15/06/2013 19:34

That is horrible, poor poor baby, he wants and needs to be close to his mother to feel reassured and comforted, surely if you withdraw theses basic elements of parenting, that's neglect?
This baby is going to become untrusting because if his own caregivers ignore his cries who else can he rely on to be there.
To think this is probably going on a lot, makes me feel so sad.
Babies are not meant to fit in with our lifestyle, we adapt to suit them, some people seem to have forgotten this..
Tell her to pick him up and don't let him go, just wear him in a sling as many hours of the day, he needs his mummy, the transition from womb to the world is stressful enough for the baby without being shut in a room and made to cry. This makes me MAD.

LostAndNeverFound · 15/06/2013 19:34

Fairylea makes a good point, what happens to him during the night? I sincerely hope he's not left to cry himself back go sleep without being fed Sad. But surely everyone knows you have to feed throughout the night if a baby this young demands it? Don't they?

I don't think we should start speculating about things like that until the OP knows for sure, but I think this is worth a mention to your friend as well OP when you see her on monday?

Fairylea · 15/06/2013 19:41

You're right lost, perhaps I was wrong for speculating maybe.. it just made me wonder really. She said ds cried for 2 hours before she went to him or he went to sleep (wasn't clear which) at 8 weeks old to be crying for 2 hours I'd assume he'd at least want another feed, which is what made me wonder about during the night.

Very sad thread :(

pianodoodle · 15/06/2013 19:42

This would be one of those things I'd say interfere if you have to. It isn't like the mum just does things differently - I can't stand to think about such a young one being left to cry like that.

Be polite but don't sugar coat it too much or she might not realise just how serious you are. Her nerves must be shattered and no doubt her partner is some kind of controlling selfish A-hole but baby's the only one who can't take care of himself and that's the main issue.

If it were me I'd be tempted to think of a reason to phone back and then bring it up again.

pianodoodle · 15/06/2013 19:56

Could you explain that at this age, baby doesn't even realise she's close by. As far as he knows she's just disappeared off the face of the earth? It's true isn't it that when they're that little they don't know you're in another room - if they can't see you you just don't exist? Think how frightening that must be when you can't rely on someone coming to you when you call?!

You could say that actually he'll cry less when he's secure in the fact that someone always comes when needed rather than the world of scary anxiety he lives in now.

Sorry I just can't stop thinking about this!

RiotsNotDiets · 15/06/2013 19:59

I wish I hadn't opened this thread Sad poor little baby

RoooneyMara · 15/06/2013 20:01

Do you know who her HV team is? If so contact THEIR office and say you are concerned. I have done this before. They take notes and say they will send someone round to check, or speak to the mum or whatever.

itsmyturnnow · 15/06/2013 20:30

I'm sorry but I don't feel bad for her at all. She is making a choice to leave her tiny baby crying and all alone. Regardless of how much she stupidly worships the 'wisdom' of her DP, she is making a choice - a very wrong, neglectful choice. She can hear the baby crying, she doesn't go to offer comfort or help - how can she do that, and how can she say she feels annoyed when she hears her baby crying? She doesn't even sound well to be honest, that is just so wrong and counter intuitive.

I agree with others that I'd direct her to ask for advice on a forum, or to speak to her hv, but I also think you have a responsibility to say that it's not healthy to leave a baby of that age to cry all alone.

LadyBeagleEyes · 15/06/2013 20:35

Has she no maternal instinct at all?
Surely your baby crying comes way before what your partner thinks.

pomdereplay · 15/06/2013 20:53

My heart really, genuinely hurt reading this. That poor child.

I too believe it is a form of neglect. A baby that tiny cannot be 'taught' in any meaningful way; all he will eventually earn that his parents, the people who should protect and nurture and love him the most, cannot be relied upon to come to him when he calls out in need. This is profoundly disturbing. 30 minutes is already far too long in such a small person's world -- 2 hours actually beggars belief. Sad

I think I will have to hide this thread. OP, if your friend doesn't listen to you, please consider reaching out to her HV, her mum, anyone who might be able to persuade her that this is not an appropriate way to care for a tiny infant.

Mintyy · 15/06/2013 21:01

Did you all know that wholesome Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin basically did this with their newborns? They hired a night nanny who doesn't believe in feeding on demand and thinks its fine to let newborns self settle?

SorryMyLollipop · 15/06/2013 22:01

Show her brain scan images of a neglected child (who's cries are not responded to- careful with the emotive wording) and normal brain development. Google it, it's something you don't forget. I would link but on my phone so can't.

megsmouse · 15/06/2013 22:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairylea · 15/06/2013 22:08

I'm going to have to hide this thread too. It's so upsetting to think he is crying and no one is coming :(
I'd really do what Rooney suggested and contact her health visitor and ask them to do a home visit. They don't need to know you said anything, health visitor could just say they were in the area, especially as the baby is so little.

Just awful.

My ds is 1 and I have a dd aged 10 and both have slept through from 12 weeks and I've never left either of themto cry at all, always fed on demand etc etc. I just can't imagine leaving a tiny baby to cry like that. I just want to pick him up and give him a cuddle.

WillYouDoTheFandango · 15/06/2013 22:15

Oh fuck me, at 8 weeks my baby was never ever in another room, he literally came into the kitchen if I made a cup of tea. He's 6 months tomorrow and I still can't let him cry for even a minute without a cuddle Sad

I hope your advice has gone in and she speaks to her HV about it. Please keep trying to subtly steer her in the right direction. That poor poor baby.

candyandyoga · 15/06/2013 22:47

Sorry but I would give it to her both barrels. In fact tell her this from me...

'Stop leaving your two month baby alone to cry - it's wrong you idiot. '

That POOR baby. Please say something. Please do something :-(

candyandyoga · 15/06/2013 22:49

I'm fuming at your friend - really, he neglect makes me feel Sick

Please tell her strongly how wrong she is

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