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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

We encourage children in our cafe BUT

999 replies

childfriendlycafeowner · 14/06/2013 20:07

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 16/06/2013 23:10

hazeyjane there was a post earlier about a 2 year old, then someone else came along and said well it wouldn't be any good with my two year old with sn, which I am sure is true but the poster hadn't meant a child with sn and then got a thrashing about it - that is taking what someone says out of context.

This thread has made me very aware that I need to be wary of parents with children who have sn (unless they are family)

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 16/06/2013 23:12

Thanks, usual. Yes, this thread did hit a nerve. My DS does make noises and screeches. I won't keep him out if the way or apologise for him. I try to encourage him to be quieter, but I will still take him to cafés and restaurants. It can be extremely embarrasing and the stares and comments are hurtful but I am very proud of him, actually.

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 16/06/2013 23:14

Wary of parents who have DC with SN? WTF?

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:16

I think it's reasonable to assume that the child did not have SN as the mother herself called him a 'little tinker' which to me implies that he's a bit naughty. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say that posters stating that the mother should have tried to defuse the situation or left are being disablist. Most people posting are assuming the child does not have SN and the mother was just letting the child scream. This is unacceptable. Yes, life and society is unfair to our children but I don't believe this thread was about them and I don't automatically think we need to jump of everyone for jumping to the conclusion that this child was NT as chances are she was. Smile

GobbySadcase · 16/06/2013 23:16

Oh I know.
It's those pesky defective kids again.

You know, the ones you'd prefer to not exist?

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 16/06/2013 23:17

Sorry, ivykaty, but my DC does have SN, so for me, it's just normal and relevant. Not out of context.

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:18

Hy wary? It isn't catching.

amazingmumof6 · 16/06/2013 23:18

hazeyjane - best thing is to look at what happened exactly, what OP needed help with.

you can obviously add your own view about SN children, but does that help OP with her particular situation? based on what she described was happening?

these threads always end up the same bitter way because they are like Chinese Whispers - they get distorted along the way.

which is a shame, because that's how people's feelings get hurt unnecessarily.

tabulahrasa · 16/06/2013 23:19

Why is there an assumption that you would know if a child has an SN?

I have a DS with AS, I've worked with children with a range of disabilities...they mostly look and act to someone meeting them briefly or observing them for a short period of time like absolutely any other child.

There is no way in the world that you can tell in a cafe whether a noisy child is noisy or has a condition like autism and anybody who thinks that they can is deluded.

Lazyjaney · 16/06/2013 23:19

"and the moral of the story is, hopefully:

noisy kids - maybe ok, maybe not
noisy kids' mother doing fuck all to stop them from disturbing people - not ok"

That's it in a nutshell....and after half an hour, Very Not OK.

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:22

Ellen, it is normal and relevant to you (us) but that doesn't mean it's relevant to the thread or OP.

I am only 2yrs in and we are looking at GDD or possible ASD so maybe I will get harder and more disillusioned the more injustice I come across.

ivykaty44 · 16/06/2013 23:23

and you then wonder why I would be wary.....anything I say will be turned to say it is your way or the highway.

rusticlanguage · 16/06/2013 23:25

So it seems that everyone agrees with the OP - that parents should not just brush off the behaviour of their dc when it is clearly impacting on other people. Why all the other toxic stuff on this thread fgs?

ivykaty44 · 16/06/2013 23:25

No mary it isn't catching but by goodness you get your head bitten of for saying something the round wrong Hmm

amazingmumof6 · 16/06/2013 23:25

tabula - that is an excellent point, but it can then swing the other way, when people make false excuses for their childrens' bad behaviour where there's absolutely no SN issue only a naughty child and a weak parent...

do you see what I'm trying to say?

ilovesooty · 16/06/2013 23:26

I think it's reasonable to assume that the child did not have SN as the mother herself called him a 'little tinker' which to me implies that he's a bit naughty. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say that posters stating that the mother should have tried to defuse the situation or left are being disablist. Most people posting are assuming the child does not have SN and the mother was just letting the child scream. This is unacceptable. Yes, life and society is unfair to our children but I don't believe this thread was about them and I don't automatically think we need to jump of everyone for jumping to the conclusion that this child was NT as chances are she was

MaryKatharine, Thanks

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:26

Ivykaty, if you read my posts I don't think you can accuse me of thinking like that at all. You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

ladymariner · 16/06/2013 23:27

Nowhere does it say in the op that the child had Sn. Nowhere did it say that dc with Sn should be kept out of the way....of course they shouldn't. But surely it's just good manners that if your child is screeching and screaming and disturbing the majority of people, around you that you should make an attempt to placate him/her? I thought that was what we were discussing but it all seems to have got way out of hand...

amazingmumof6 · 16/06/2013 23:30

ladymariner you and I agree!Smile

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 16/06/2013 23:32

I'm 13 years in, Mary. And I'm sorry, but it may well have been relevant. This is AIBU, not a thread asking for support. I'm sick to death of people on MN and in RL thinking that just because SN doesn't affect them directly that it isn't relevant. When I read a thread about noisy DC who should leave public places like cafés because they shouldn't be disturbing people, it affects me. Because that's my life, that's my child. And its not derailing the thread, it's reminding everyone that decent people should be aware that they don't know the whole story and they should be more tolerant.

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:32

Ok, Ivy, I'm sorry. I have tried to be reasonable and not bite anyone's head off.

Ilovesooty, thank you!

I am off to bed as even though my child with addition needs is thankfully, currently a great sleeper, I have 3other NT children, 2 of whom will be up with the larks! Goodnight all!

ivykaty44 · 16/06/2013 23:37

Mary some posters do bite heads of on here if you say something the wrong way round or if you refer to a child they say it has to be a child with sn as that is there world and normal to them.

I don't want to go out in RL and offend anyone so will be very wary of parents with children with sn

i didn't refer to you apart from to say I know it is not catching to have sn

MaryKatharine · 16/06/2013 23:39

Just a quickie, Ellen but you see, I didn't see the OP that way at all. I don't think anyone was saying the child was at fault or shouldn't be there but rather that the mother saw it all as sweet and effectively ignored her child for half an hour whilst she finished eating and chatting. The mums I have met through SN playgroup certainly do not just carry on eating and chatting whilst their children are making a lot of noise. That's not to say the noise can be lessened but at least the parent is trying. For me it's the parent's attitude and actions that define the situation.

eggandcress · 16/06/2013 23:39

Lady mariner and amazingmumof6

Why do you keep saying that there was no evidence that the child in the op had sn?
Why is it hard to understand that we are asking about our children. I see a thread that says a noisy child is not welcome and I have one of those who cannot be quietened sometimes therefore am I welcome in the cafe?

This is why we are mentioning sn

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 16/06/2013 23:41

Sorry, ivykaty, but my DC does have SN, so for me, it's just normal and relevant. Not out of context.

Did you really think this post was biting your head off?

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