We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Just read the thread and wow. Grabs popcorn

Thanks, MaryKatherine. I am the auntie to a SN kid, godmother to a gay kid, and parent to a ginger kid. :)

Exotic, you asked this question.

I still don't remember saying they should be quiet.

I responded with this. Have you forgotten this post?

So- the general view is that toddlers can't be expected to be quiet in cafes(sic)

Both from your posts. I don't see the issue with interpretation. They both use the word 'quiet.'

Clearly my view is my own and others are entitled to see it as offensive. But, I do use it myself and I certainly don't define my child by his disability so...
But you know what, all that says it that like children with SN, parents of children with SN are not a bunch of homogenous zombies who need to stick to threads concerning SN!

Oh, and SM to a 'squint girl'. No, I might not say that - but in the context of a thread about vision problems, I'd almost certainly refer to her as a 'visually impaired child', as likely as a 'child with visual impairment'.

Damn this thread has gone completely off the rails, reason has gone out the window, so for that I wish you all a good night.

Because kids with SN aren't socially acceptable, hazey. They're not 'naice' and shouldn't be out sullying some posters' enjoyment.

Oh and don't forget stealing attention in the classroom from their little darlings.

If we keep them hidden and preferably institutionalised they can be ignored.

Trying to give kids with SN the same opportunities in life, education and leisure is just UNFAIR.

Why is it such a problem that a discussion about children making noise, veers off a bit into a discussion about children with sn making noise?

that isn't a problem

the problem is that then every single post after children with sn are mentioned means that every single child mentioned must be reference to a child with sn, when that is simply not the case, other posters are posting with reference to children without sn but that is not accepted adn offence must be meant.

I'm not surprised the OP hasn't been back for a while. This has all got rather hysterical. [no comment]

Brdgrl, I didn't say SN DC was offensive, just that a DC with SN is more polite. Always child first, person first, disability second. They are a person and shouldn't be defined by their disability. I'm not an auntie to a DC with SN BTW, I'm rather more closely affected. So sorry if I'm rather more sensitive.

Where ivykate?

so I'm guessing this thread is NOT going to end up in Classics.

what a shame , I would have thought this is wonderful example of a classic bunfight that blossomed so predictably from misunderstandings and self-righteousness.

and the moral of the story is, hopefully:

noisy kids - maybe ok, maybe not
noisy kids' mother doing fuck all to stop them from disturbing people - not ok

and curtain

I'm not sure that I can put it more clearly- your interpretation of quiet is different to mine. You appear it to mean silent- with no babbling, laughing, talking- I take that as normal- I mean no screeching or similar.

Yep that's about it amazing

Have also just come back to this thread and can't believe how spectacularly it has been derailed.....

Hazeyjane what?

Summed up perfectly amazingmumof6- curtain- nothing to add.

Sorry, exotic. I'm not arguing about interpretation. You asked where you had said DC should be quiet, using the word quiet, not silent. I replied.

I'm not an auntie to a DC with SN BTW, I'm rather more closely affected.

Well, I think you are missing my broader point, and I rather suspect that is deliberate. I'll just leave it at that.

I have found myself telling my son to stop making noises or banging when a) he doesn't understand and b) he doesn't have the self control to stop, purely so it looks like I am doing something.

Nicely summed up, amazing. Now, can there please not be another one of these threads for, oh, a year or so?

Derailed?

Makes you all uncomfortable when parents of children with SN give their opinions does it?

Were you all expecting the usual Smug 'well my child never behaves like that' posts.

Sorry ivykate, I was just asking, where people had posted about children without sn, and people had insisted on it being about children with sn, I haven't seen that.

Makes you all uncomfortable when parents of children with SN give their opinions does it?

Oh, come off it.

I don't think it takes a huge leap of the brain to understand why sn would be brought into a discussion like this

The op talks about a child in a cafe being noisy and should she put a stop to it for the other customers. If you have a child with sn who is noisy this is very pertinent. If my ds is noisy would I be expected to leave a cafe?

As far as I am aware in the talk guidelines it does not say posters have to stick rigidly to the original op. Threads meander and change this is the nature of discussion.

Anyone who says but the op never mentioned sn is being very narrow in my view.

Honestly, I feel as though I am being told to get back in my box for daring to mention sn, when it is perfectly relevant, when talking about children screaming or making noise in a cafe, to talk about our children making noise in a cafe.