We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Thanks, MaryKatherine - I'm sorry that sounded bitchy - I really did mean that I agree with you that the key point is not the child's behaviour, but the parent's.

Yes, you have form. Both of your names are etched into my memory.

Of course she did the sensible thing! Why in earth would you take a small child to a cafe when you know they won't want to sit down- why not buy the items and take outside and they are free! Why is that not sensible?

it does seem that you are only reading parts of the posts that you want to and then twisting them in your own minds to mean that it only ever refers to children with sn.

it doesn't matter how many times it is pointed out that this is not about sn children or that it is not about sn children or that it not about sn children - you still take it to mean it is about sn children.

That's DC with SN, you mean?

So I "have form" for denying the rights of those with disabilities? Charming. Obviously you read what you want to read, rather than what's in front of you.

You would never imagine that I go into cafes all over the country with babies and toddlers- even whole groups of them, with a mums get together- and never been upset by them. I have never been in the vicinity of a parent who allowed them to screech and then said, indulgently, 'they are a little tinker'! Sometimes I think that MN is a parallel universe that I have strayed into! On the law of averages I must have had many a coffee with SN DCs too.

That's DC with SN, you mean, exotic.

No one has ever said that 'I was etched on their memory' - perhaps you might take heed in that case!

irrespective of special needs its about how the parents react rather than the child.

If parents ignore their childrens poor behaviour then people are going to get pissed off. If parents are obviously attempting to calm the situation, encourage quieter/better behaviour then most reasonable people will sympathise with the parents.

Different parents will deal with things differently to suit what works for their child but most parents will do something to try to improve the situation for everyone.

OP never came back then.

I am also a teacher able to manage 30 kids at a time. Didn't help me manage my crazy DD1though! I took her out because it wasn't fair on me, her or everyone else. I do think parents should attend to their children. Rather than allow them to run riot.

However, that is not the same as expecting children, esp toddlers to be quiet. And certainly is nothing like expecting that children or adults with additional needs that 'prevent' them from being quiet should be removed from a cafe. My DS's SN is characterised by extreme passivity. However, by say, 8yrs old this may have turned into humming, stimming or occasional screeching. I will not feel the need to remove him as I know neither he nor I will have any control over it and I would expect others in the vicinity to show a little compassion.

I have no objection to parents failing- I have every objection to parents not even trying!

Some of the posters here should be mindful of 'this is my child'.

Mind you, with HQ decreeing unintentional disablism acceptable then the whole campaign starts to look a little brittle.

So does that mean I can say " insert ethnic minority of choice shouldn't be in a cafe as they smell" as long as I don't intend to offend?

Ok that would make me a complete twat, but that's no different to the 'unintentional' disablists on here. Not that I believe it's unintentional for a second.

Yeah, exotic, not in a good way, unfortunately.

Ivy as you've stated it has been said OVER and OVER again.

For those that have children / adults with SN may I suggest a thread to discuss issues/ problems/suggestions on eating out?ie where is good/ where is not etc?

Lit the fuse and fucked off...

I still don't remember saying they should be quiet. It would be abnormal to be quiet- cafes are supposed to be social for all.

I don't really care EllenJane- at least it means you read me!

Op came back and saw it had been changed in a different thread about SN.....

Sorry, kaumana, I'll post where I want, thanks. Please don't banish those with DC or adults to their own thread.

OP never came back then.
OP came back pages ago and thanked everyone for their input.

The thread has now a life of its own.

So- the general view is that toddlers can't be expected to be quiet in cafes (sic)

You have forgotten posting this, then, exotic?

OP had no intention of coming back

That's DC or adults with SN, of course.