We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

I'm surprised people think even a neurotypical child who looks two, so could be as young as 18 months, is capable of guaranteed reasonable noise levels for an hour. The reason it isn't always easy to tell whether a child that age has SN is they all have poor impulse and emotion control.

Can you show me where anyone's rights include destroying other people's peace, please? Some people cannot stop themselves from not being peaceful, they are allowed out.

What a horrible fucking thread. My DS was 'badly behaved' at 2 years old, he wasn't diagnosed as autistic until the age of 11. A casual observer would have said be doesn't have SN, they still would as he looks so 'normal'. They'd be fucking wrong though.

So- the general view is that toddlers can't be expected to be quiet in cafes, parents shouldn't attempt to control them and cafe owners and customers must live with it?
It makes me glad that I don't own a cafe and that I am perfectly free to boycott certain places!

That seems to be the jist of it Exotic.

Of course toddlers cannot be expected to be quiet! Speaking as the mother of a child with developmental delays, I can tell you that a quiet toddler who sits quietly and passively is actually a worrying sign! My 2yr old is as easy and quiet as pie. Far, far easier than the other three at the same age. Yet he is the one with the issues.

There is a vast difference between a toddler who bursts into loud shouting, babbling or crying but whose parent is onto it by offering food or distraction and a child effectively being left to scream and screech for half an hour without any input from the parent.

Or you could actually do something novel- you could talk to your toddler and play with them!

Seriously, exoticfruits? You expect toddlers to be seen and not heard, I suppose. Of course parents try to control them, SN or not, just don't hoick your judgy pants so high if sometimes they can't manage to keep them silent. This was a self advertised, child friendly café, remember.

I agree with every post exotic has made

it also confirms to me why my dd1 left the cafe and went back to a bar to work - no children allowed, she loves children but hated half term and holiday as the parents are so badly behaved when out with their children...

I can't remember ever saying they should be silent! I don't want them screeching.

I could take your 2year old and get them to sit down with me- unfortunately you are powerless as a customer and can't pick them up and engage.

I would love you to have seen you trying to engage my DS2 when he was 2. That was a year before his ASD DX.

So- the general view is that toddlers can't be expected to be quiet in cafes (sic)

ellenjane - you are taking his from dislike of screeching to a dislike of a child making any noise at all - that is not what the thread was about at all.

There is a big difference from a child playing or interacting with a parents and making noise to a child without sn screeching for half an hour for the sake of it.

So-the general rule is that toddlers can't be expected to be quiet in cafes.

Exotic, that sounds very much like you are complaining that they should be quiet.

I talk to all my children. 3 are always well behaved, inc the one with SN. DD1 however has always been wild. Walking and talking at 10mths and not understanding why she couldn't climb up the back and jump onto the large dangly lampshade in costa. Talking to her and engaging her is a full time job yet it's still never enough to hold her back which is why we stayed clear of places until she was about 6! The taking and engaging made no difference in the Sam eBay that talking and engaging my youngest hasn't stopped him being developmentally delayed. It is how a parent handles the situation which is crucial so it's very judgy to suggest that you could get my children to behave better.

Sam EBay??????? Should obviously be same way.

Walking and talking at 10mths and not understanding why she couldn't climb up the back and jump onto the large dangly lampshade in costa.

It is how a parent handles the situation which is crucial

I actually agree with you. Assume you would have taken DD out of the Costa, then?

Of course parents try to control them

The mother in the OP didn't: that's the point exotic is making.

since when did this thread have to only be about sn children? it didn't start of about sn children and not every post in this thread if it mentions children is about sn children - it isn't

I wish there was an emoticon of < face palms head>.

Brdgrl, yes of course I would take her out. As I said, we avoided coffee meets etc when she was little which was a shame as I'd loved them when her older brother was the same age. Again, he younger sister was also well behaved (for a toddler) so less issues. I simply resent the fact that exotic seems to think that she could control my DD1 as perhaps all she needs is to be talked to and engaged. DD1 is very NT btw. No SN whatsoever, just exceptionally bright and very naughty.

Dawndonna- I have said, over and over and over again that I am not talking about SN- I can't see why you are insisting on the DC in opening post being SN. I have never heard a parent of a SN DC saying, 'they are a little tinker aren't they?' MaryKatherine did the sensible thing and avoided cafes until 6 yrs.

Exotic has form on these threads, Dawndonna, as does ilovesooty. I'd love exotic to have tried to keep DS2 quiet.

She did the sensible thing?

Speaks for itself.

I "have form"? I've repeatedly said that I don't dispute the right of a parent to take their child with SN out.

Maybe I have form because I am a teacher and I have to manage 30 children at a time and expect them to behave appropriately!