We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Well, I wouldn't go back. Not because of the minuscule chance of the same screaming toddler being there again; but because the cafe had demonstrated that they're prepared to let parents allowing their kids run riot go unchallenged.
The chance of it happening again are therefore quite high.

Only read the op and a few other posts but am replying even though this thread is so long because this is one of my personal bugbears!

I can't understand why some parents think it is ok to inflict their crying, screaming babies/children on other customers in a restaurant . It's just not ok. In any circumstances!

If your child is being annoying to other customers and you can't calm them in 3 minutes you leave. (I have a 3 minute rule!). Either until they are calm again and can come back or you have to go home. This is not rocket science! Antisocial behaviour=go home fast.

If I went to a cafe where the owners were seemingly tolerant of the behaviour described in the op, I wouldn't go back either!

Actually I like the Wetherspoons Carvery better than the Toby carvery.

I can't bear buffet eat all you like places. Makes me feel sick seeing people over piling plates , eating greedily not to mention sticky serving spoons ( boak).

Oh I love them, I like to get my moneys worth.

Far better than some poncy restaurant where you get a tiny bit of meat and one potato dribbled with a fancy sauce.

I've never been to the Toby but my family rave about it. I do love a good carvery.

I have to agree re Toby Carveries,much better than your standard pub roast. If I want 6 roast potatoes then that is what I'll be having. Not a measly 2!

Rowanred - when my DD was tiny I had terrible PND and was the one thing that I was advised was to go out to cafes as I was too nervous to go to mother and toddler. My DD was very placid but if she had colic or ubeen an unsettled baby as one of my friends had, would have I have to stay away because the baby didn't stop crying after 3 minutes

Just to say greenfolder that sounds like a BRILLIANT cafe that is really family friendly in a way that also makes other customers happy - perfect all round! Great advice.

Bonquers, can you reread some of your posts. You are saying that you would treat DC with or without SN exactly the same? Neither should be allowed to disturb a quiet café? So that is equality, in your opinion, is it?

Actually, that is not equality. A DC without SN is able to be reasoned with, even a toddler will grow up and develop into a DC/adult who can manage to be quiet. DC with SN may not be able to keep quiet, may not be able to be reasoned with, may not grow and develop into a DC or adult who can keep quiet. To give that person and their carers equal opportunities to enjoy an occasional outing to a cafe or restaurant or theatre then people need to be tolerant. That is true equality.

A DC who has a physical disability or has LD, you would treat them exactly the same as an able bodied or NT one? That treatment that may deny them any opportunity to enjoy facilities and events that able bodied or NT DC /people take for granted?

The whole idea of equality legislation is that reasonable adjustments should be made to ensure an even playing field, not that everyone receives the same treatment.

I must be a mouth breather then.
Still at least I'm not a snob.

God no usual, inverted one, without a doubt.

mouthbreathers!

jeez

WTactualF is a mouthbreather?!

I think Bonquers has shown her true colours.

Crashdoll, it's a phrase often used to insult those with SN.

I have never heard that term before. I knew it didn't sound a pleasant term but didn't realise it was that vile. Think this thread has run its course if people are going to behave like that. Also, reported!!

Can I just add, for the people rolling their eyes that this thread has meandered into a discussion into the acceptance of people with sn into everyday life, the following

the child in the op probably didn't have sn, but that is not the point - the point is that if I was in that cafe and saw a woman with a small child who had been screeching with happiness for approx half an hour, be told not to return. I would think the cafe owner was being hugely unreasonable, partly because I don't think it is actually that child friendly to not accept that children can sometimes be noisy. But I would also worry about what would happen if ds was screeching because he was excited, or if we were there with our friend's whose dd has a genetic condition part of which is that she often randomly screeches or makes an 'eeeeeeeeeee' noise of sheer happiness!

Threads do take different turns, obviously a few other posters had similar thoughts to me, because I was not the only one to post such thoughts.

Then some people post to say that actually even if the child does have sn, it still wouldn't be acceptable, and the thread twists again.

It's not some sort of hijack, it is just that a thread about children screaming in cafes will make some parent's think about it in a slightly different light because of the circumstances of their lives.

Same with table manners, someone might look over at my ds scooping icecream out of the bowl with his fingers and think, 'why the hell do parent's not teach table manners nowadays', when the reality is that it takes quite a lot of effort for ds to eat with a spoon, and although he tries, he often struggles and ends up using his fingers.

I hadn't noticed the use of the term 'mouthbreathers' earlier, it should be deleted in both instances.

Fair enough not to realise. But hopefully it won't be used again

I'm glad that wasn't your intention, Bonquers.