We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

I think some people are being harsh wrt to the OP's first post. She was in an awkward position, either way; she ran the risk of offending someone. You cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Can you show me where anyone's rights include destroying other people's peace, please?
They would be the same rights afforded to you.

Utter tosh dawn. More than happy to tolerate tics etc etc . Not happy to tolerate the behaviours mentioned in the OP.

This is getting boring now. Belittling someone who challenges your opinion does not do you any favours, either.

Congratulations, you are prepared to put up with my eighteen year old, now, let's have a bit of think. Would you have been so when at, for example, eight, he was less controlled, had fewer coping strategies, may have been a little louder for a little longer?

Yes, bonquers T

I have asked someone to leave because they were complaining about the noise a girl with SN was making.

Was she screaming non stop for an hour, usual?

She was making loud noises yes. It is the only way she has to comunicate.

The more excited she gets, the louder she gets.

If you can't tolerate it for an hour in your life, tough.

Loud noises are a lot different from screeching. I have no problem with loud noises, it's squealing and screeching that I can't stand, they literally hurt my head and ears when they reach a certain pitch.

'No one, no one has the right to spoil a meal for anyone else.'

Define spoiling. I had someone say I should leave a cafe because dd drools and I tube fed her and apparently this 'spoilt their meal. It was the first time I'd taken her out in months.
IMO they were intolerant arses who get plently of ooportunities to go out. In theirs, dd should stay away from sensitive TAB's because she is icky.

I don't see why anyone should have to tolerate a toddler screeching for an hour where the mother appeared to think everyone should indulge the behaviour and there was no evidence of any parental intervention. Totally different from a SN scenario.

Of course it should be accepted that a child with sn might behave like this but if a child without sn acts in this way they need to be stopped. It is not helping to socialise them, and imo they are never to young to learn. Even at 2 you can tell them its not acceptable to scream like that in public.

Yanbu - I would be horrified if it was my child crying and I would probably have asked to move outside.

I think it is very unfair that this thread has got sidelined onto SN so that anyone unhappy about sitting in a cafe with a screeching toddler is immediately in the wrong. Parents of SN children do not fondly say ' she's a little tinker isn't she?' - all the parents of SNs DCs that I know are responsible and I admire them because they have strategies to deal with it. They may not succeed, but they at least try. The mother just let her- if she wasn't up to a firm 'stop that now or we leave' - then she could have attempted distraction or 'now you have been the loudest can you whisper quieter than me?'. She didn't even do the one that irritates me where she abdicates responsibility and says 'if you make that noise the cafe lady will ask you to leave'! She did nothing- except ask OP to agree she was 'a little tinker'- with the assumption it was her right to carry on being a 'little tinker'. ( I would use a different word!)

I have boycotted Bella Italia for nearly last three years because one of the waiters tried to move us when DS2 was verbally stimming (reciting The Gruffalo, maybe a little louder than he should but he wasnt shouting, just animated). We had been sat for 40 minutes when a middle aged couple arrived and withing 5 minutes the woman had complained loudly, loud enough for me to hear her over DS2.

I have also had people complain because he eats with his hands.

You may better OP in not being child friendly. A lot discourage it because it is abused- as seen on here.

It's a real minefield public eating, to be fair.

What do we think about very poor table manners? belching, chewing loudly with open mouth etc, eating with hands?
How much should we all tolerate in others?

Bad table manners? Not on my table - but how others behave is up to them. I can look away.

I think that people just vote with their feet- if it isn't a pleasant experience they avoid in future.

true Exotic. Years ago I went into a noodlebar. Might have been a wagamamas but I dont recall. It was one of those places where you share a long table with strangers and this woman was talking too loudly and using the word 'like' and 'totally' every other word. Plus a rising inflection at the end of every sentence. I had to strangle her with my noodles in the end. I do believe I got a round of applause from the other customers
Gawd but she was annoying. Give me a screaming toddler any day.

I've find this thread so sad. I've not got a child with SN or indeed a screamer but I thought we lived in a kinder more tolerant society and I would feel so guilty if someone who had SN or small child missed out on a nice social lunch so I could enjoy quiet time.

Would people really never return to a café because there was once a screaming toddler? I'd just write it off as a noisy lunchtime and return again, if I liked it.

Yup, me too crashdoll.

I look away too Morgeuse but I have been put off places where the general level of manners is poor .

I went to a carvery type place once and I was really put off by some of the other customers and their manners, if I'm honest.

I'd probably find somewhere else to go next time if a child had screamed all the way through my visit. Bit of a cry or grizzle OK, or a meltdown that Mum deals with as best as she can, but screaming for an hour to the level that I can't actually have a conversation with people and Mum does nothing, no I'd vote with my feet.
Not sure how that is considered intolerant?

Bloody hell, the way this thread has turned is so sad. We all have a choice of where we go to eat/drink. I absolutely agree that parents have to take responsibility if their child is being a PITA but removing children and adults with SN?! No.
I don't go to child-friendly cafes because there are plenty of cafes geared towards adults. I don't go to Toby Carveries because I see enough mouth-breathing arseholes in every day life as it is. If you go to a chain restaurant then expect to see all walks of life; if you don't want that then go somewhere more exclusive.

I love Toby Carvaries.

Each to their own, usual.