We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

No point explaining,lambola.

Intolerance is alive and well on MN.

He has the same rights as everyone else.

He doesn't have the right to ruin other people's meals in exactly the same way as I don't or my non SN children don't.

Of course, usual we should all shut up and put up with screaming and shouting and running and food throwing and whatever other behaviour when we have paid for a nice meal because objecting makes us intolerant bigots.

What a Crock.

But the noises he makes are part of his SN, how can you not understand that?

It doesn't matter what you think his rights are. He has legal rights.

You know it all depends on the level hothead as with all children.

No one minds chat, laughter , a bit of shouting, food dropped a cry etc etc etc. No one wants loud, prolonged and persistent screaming, running about and generally completely anti social behaviour. And, quite frankly, why the heck should they?

No Bonquers.
First of all, the you want to take offence is not a valid argument, using it is an excuse to stop a discussion, usually the person using it does not really comprehend why they want to stop said discussion. They only know that they're not getting their point across. However, we all understand that you feel that nobody has the right to spoil another's meal. To a certain extent you may be right, however, some people cannot help their behaviours, we expect you to make allowances for that, it's not an unreasonable request. By continually telling me that I'm looking to take offence at every post you are not going to get me to back down. As I said, it's an old and hackneyed argument designed to shut down a discussion. You are being unreasonable and unfair here. I stated quite clearly early my position on a child screaming due to uncaring and unschooled parenting. You are stating that your position on special needs is that you don't care and you think they too should bugger off, if they are noisy. I am merely challenging that position.
Ds 2 has pointed out that people do get pissed off with him an accuse him of ruining their day out. He refuses to be locked away and states that your position is absolutely no different to those that complain about him 'flailing everywhere'.

Different people are offended by different things, noise, tics, stims, those people with differences would ask that you tolerate such behaviours, you have categorically stated that you will not, ergo, I shall continue to challenge.

He has the same rights as anyone else to go into a cafe, if that makes other customers uncomfortable that's their problem, not yours Lambola.

YABU it not dealing with it quicker. There is no point in saying something just as the mother leaves, you may as well not have said anything if she was going at that point. I think that once the mother (as a paying customer) had finished whatever food/drinks she had paid for then a little word might have been in order but to leave it til she's leaving anyway is utterly pointless. Have you thought about having a basket of toys or books in a basket in the corner? Works wonders the power of distraction does and you can pick a variety of stuff up at charity shops which is likely to keep many a whinging two year old quiet

The OP did speak to the mother earlier, to no avail.

The child had toys.

Utter tosh dawn. More than happy to tolerate tics etc etc . Not happy to tolerate the behaviours mentioned in the OP.

usual. Nope. A cafe owner is quite within their rights to ask someone behaving rudely, anti socially and disruptively to leave.

I think some people have forgotten we're talking about a toddler - someone who can't control themself any more than someone with SN. There's little difference IMO, either you are capable of controlling your volume or you're not. I've often been in the situation where either a very small child or someone older with SN is noisy in a public place. It's not a big deal, it's part of life and you just suck it up and get on with things.

I agree Bonquers.

I don't see why anyone should "suck up" a toddler screaming continually for an hour when the parent makes no attempt to do anything about it.

I know who I would ask to.leave, it wouldn't be a child with SN.

Yes, of course they do. You are spectacularly missing the point. It is about the severity and length of disruption.

So usual, if a customer was behaving in an extremely loud, screaming, anti social way which was clearly causing disruption and another customer quietly complained to you, you'd boot out the complainer?

Usual you seem to have misunderstood. I said I admire peope who discourage screechers, there is no evidence that the child in question had special needs.

Business owners who allow customers to screech for an hour at a time will soon be out of business, most people won't put up with it.

Bonquers

If you have a disabled child then it is not a simple issue.

It really, really is not that simple.

I am guessing from your posts that you do not have much experience of disability therefore it is difficult to get across to you the fine balancing act that parents like me face everyday.

The questions we would ask ourselves before heading out to somewhere like a cafe are things like;

1. Can we face it today?
2. Will he kick-off today?
3. Will the cafe owners/cafe staff be tolerant towards us?
4. Are there going to be friendly customers in the cafe?
5. Will I get to finish my food/hot drink?

and so on....

Because there are very few places where an adult can get coffee etc in a child free quiet environment, there is going to be intolerance from people who don't particularly want to hear noisy DCs - I know someone who doesn't eat in cafes for this very reason. She has a right to eat out too, so perhaps if there was more choice, the less tolerant people wouldn't need to be around, and that would be less stressful for everyone!