We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

No, I'm determined that people understand and accept that choices available to other people are not always available to me and mine. I am determined to change language and views, I am determined that people like you are not in a position to determine me as professionally offended.
Continuing in the way you have does not serve you well.

yes you do have an agenda that you're super imposing onto this post
by all means be determined in pursuit of issues you feel strongly
but that is manifesting here on thread as a drone and tub thumpy

Isn't a cafe somewhere where people go and enjoy eating out? If they are not enjoying it, they won't come back. When my DD with SN kicks off, we remove her. There is no point being in a cafe ruining everyone else's time. I don't think that mine or my daughter's rights supersedes anyone elses. Also, if either of my other children are naughty and too noisy in a contained public place we remove them. The world does not revolve around them. I would think that a family cafe could cope with some minor carnage but not non stop screaming.

in the same way that you are manifesting as rude and aggressive?

people like me?what you mean people who don't necessarily like a cacophony noise in cafe?
dawn you have galloped to a presuming I have a certain prejudicial attitude
one cannot take response to a noisy child in cafe and extrapolate that to a global mindset

donna, it's not a special needs thread, it really isn't.
If the child having special needs had been the premise from the off, the responses would have been totally different.
Not everyone has SN as their default scenario, and it only turns out to be the case in a small number of instances too. I don't blame you for being hyper aware of the possibility; but some people really are just entitled arses with no mitigating circumstances.

There is absolutely nothing in the OP to say that it was anything other than a parent who didn't even attempt to stop them- hence the way everyone was supposed to agree, indulgently, with 'she is a little tinker, isn't she'.
I have noticed before that threads about badly behaved children can get sidelined onto SN, as if there are no badly behaved children with parents who allow them to behave inappropriately.
In my experience those who manage SN everyday are pretty good at it and have strategies to at least try. This mother didn't even attempt any.

I agree some people are entitled arse, but the whole damn point that people were trying to make was don't judge unless you know for sure.
So what if it wasn't a special needs thread, so what if you have hounded the parent of a special needs child from these boards. Because she did say she was going due to this thread.
FFS, If you are 100% certain it's a stupid mare not controlling her own child or teaching them the boundaries, that's fine, but you've got to be 100% sure.
I, along with many other parents have sat and howled when interfering old busy bodies have approached me and told me if I'd told my ds to sit on his hands he wouldn't have knocked the drink over and I should discipline him for doing so. I have cried for days on end when people have approached and told me to tell my autistic dd to stop making such a racket. The times when you cry all fucking night because some arse has looked at my dd in her wheelchair and said to me, she's so beautiful, what a shame. She's extraordinarily gifted too, and now points out to them that her ears are fine, it's just her legs that don't work. How do you think it feels to have people judge you, loudly and publicly. How do you think your dcs would feel?
Now criticise me for jumping in on these thread WHEN DISABILITY WAS BEING DISCUSSED.

What Bonquers said.

There is absolutely nothing in the OP to say that it was anything other than a parent who didn't even attempt to stop them- hence the way everyone was supposed to agree, indulgently, with 'she is a little tinker, isn't she'

I agree.

Really that's the kind of world we want to live in-that parents of kids with special needs feel the need to eat and run in case they offend anyone? or even worse hide their kids away because they are so scared of being judged by ignorant twats? FFS.

Really bonquers?-so perhaps cafes/restaurants etc should have signs in the window saying "We don't serve those with special needs/disabilities"-

I prefer to live in a world where we try and be inclusive to everyone thanks.

Re read carefully Ashoe.

ANY child. Why is it ok for a child with SN to disturb, disrupt and spoil a meal but not a child without SN?

There is no evidence whatsoever that this mother's child had SN, and the description indicates a mother who expected everyone to put up with the disruption while she did absolutely nothing to address the situation. Moreover, given her response, she expected those around her to indulge the behaviour.

I work in a cafe, I asked someone to leave who was complaining about a girl with SN who was making a noise.

And I like to live in a world where people have the decency to accept that the rights of others to peace override their rights to take a disruptive child to a quiet and ordered place where people are spending their very hard earned money.

I did read it carefully bonquers and I knew exactly what you meant. I honestly want to know what kind of cafes posters on here frequent as every café I know is welcoming of children and that includes-kids who might make a bit of kid noise...

If you don't like the noise of kids then go to the plenty of adult only places.

I presume you don't own the cafe, usual and therefore do not have to worry about custom and making ends meet and keeping your head above water?

It's very easy to be so laid back when it isn't your business on the line.

I don't expect cafes to be quiet.

Constant screaming for ran hour sis hardly, a bit of kid noise.
No one in their right minds could object to happy kid noise - in fact, it's a lovely backdrop to a meal. Full on , ignored screaming , on the other hand!

Exactly usual-cafes are a noisy place and its usually adults who are making the most noise. Perhaps go to the library if its dealthy silence you want-oh wait libraries positively encourage kids to be kids nowadays. Nae luck

Actually my job would be on the line if we didn't have any customers, a large part of our customer base is made up of People with SN and their carers.

Believe it or not their money is the same as anyone elses.

It's the customers who spread out their laptops and sit for hours on one cup of coffee that annoy me the most.