We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Haven't read all the thread ......but, we run a pub and very occasionally we've had this problem. Very tricky. Best solution I've come up with so far is asking mum if she'd like me to 'entertain' child while she enjoys her lunch. I then take child outside but still visible to mum. Downside - it means the rest of the staff are inconvenienced by my absence and have to work harder/faster. Upside - customers happy.

If mum doesn't want me to intervene (she's ok, she's just tired etc) then it is even more tricky - just try to get them served extra quick and out!!

What do YOU think about how the OP handled it shepherd?

crabby no, nothing really to do, I was advised to bear it.

well with 6 kids I have no choice!

you are not a nutter though, in fact I'd like to talk to you so will pm you later

Me, DH and our 22 month old were in a cafe yesterday. Our DS was sat in a high chair, eating and playing with his own toys on the table. Another group allowed 2x 2 year olds to run around the floor, getting under everyones feet, screaming and shouting -the adults seemed to be using the cafe staff as childminders. Totally out of order and really disruptive for everyone else. Not to mention that my heart was in my mouth everytime the waitresses passed over their heads with hot food.

Interested in this, as I have a DC with SN who can be very noisy indeed. And when she's not with me, sometimes I like to go to cafes for a change of scene and to get some work done. I haven't read every single bit of the thread, but I totally agree that parents of children with SN have the right to bring their child anywhere, without being made to feel bad about their existence. But for myself, when DD is noisily unhappy, there's no way I can feel comfortable enough to stay in a cafe or similar environment - I have to flee! Not judging anyone who doesn't feel that way - I wish I could be thicker-skinned.

When I'm out by myself, I can usually tune out the noise other people's children make. In fact sometimes I find it positively therapeutic, seeing other parents getting some! What I object to isn't noisy children but entitled parents - ie parents who treat a cafe like their own home and let their child run about all over the place, or groups of mothers who sometimes don't recognise the boundaries between their space and yours. I've been driven to leave my local cafe a few times by feeling quite literally 'nudged out'.

YANBU and to be honey you only had to resort to saying something because she didn't take the hint earlier AND should have realised on her own that it was not OK to leave a child screaming in an enclosed space. I feel for you!

to be HONEST!!!!!

Flogging
Fanjo has gone, people like you have pushed her out.

1. She lives with it every day, as do a fair few of us.
2. It's not projecting, it's saying what if?
3. Were you there, do you know for a fact the child in question didn't have special needs?

How about offering a take away service to disruptive children's parents?

"Hello, how are you doing? I can see your poor little x is a bit upset today, would you like your order as a take away with a free slice of cake to cheer them up?"

YANBU and I love children but a massive disruption to others in unacceptable.

But Dotty that is unfair on the parents of children with special needs.
A disruption to others is an inconvenience in the case of a child with special needs, not a massive disruption.

I don't think the principle was unreasonable, but perhaps you could have handled the actual contact with parent a bit better.

YABU if you market your café as child friendly/encourage families with children to come then I think you just have to suck it up to be honest.

The mother should also have had more consideration for other customers but its a fine line.

I totally get how annoying it can be but word of mouth can be very damaging if the mother tells everyone, you are just shooting yourself in the foot as a new business.

Also to be fair none of us know when kids have any undiagnosed special needs/health concerns at that age so try not to judge.

I remember two older women telling me to teach my then 2 year old some discipline when I was shopping and already feeling harassed. She had just been diagnosed with dyspraxia and sensory issues so I spun on my heels and declared loudly that she had special needs and could they try not to be so ignorant. Didn't stop me feeling wretched though.

YANBU. I would not appreciate that kind of noise in a cafe, and I do have children. She was being unreasonable not to do something about it.

completely reasonable request,as owner you need to maintain ambient atmosphere
it is a cafe to eat,read not a noisy crèche
as a parent I wouldn't have subjected others to a cacophony of noise,I'd have left early

So, those of you who would have complained/left early/had a word with the parent, I take it you're not supporting the mumsnet This is my Child campaign?

what a spurious unrelated link.op hasnt said the child had sn /disability

No, but the OP didn't know.
And, if you'd bothered to read all of the thread, you would have noticed it was part of the topic under discussion.

Hmm...as much as I think people could exercise a little tolerance towards children, I don't think that those who feel differently are disablist haterz.

Think you're taking it all rather too far now.

Don't waste your breath dawn-too many posters on this thread seem to be of the mindset that children should be seen and not heard.

Btw missmarples-your cack handed attempt at an apology was far from gracious or sincere.

We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she"

This sounds to me like a parent unwilling to address the noise, not a parent whose child had special needs.

Op has no clue whether the child had sn or not-didn't stop her hoiking her judgy pants though did it?

dawn,having read thread I see op hasn't said child had an/disability
you have said it.youre pursuing a parallel agenda unrelated to this opt
this is a lame attempt to accuse others of intolerance,when it isn't case

Actually scottishmummy I didn't start that particular part of the discussion.
No, op didn't state whether or not, so the likelihood is that we don't know. If we don't know, perhaps we should not judge.
I take it lame attempt is your stab at humour, Scottish.
I remain unimpressed.

no I'm not attempting humour you're too het up for that I fear
you're determined to turn this into an example of intolerance and drop in mn campaign
cafe owner was right to address the noise,and she is so