We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Ahouse..you know damn well you weren't talking about people with hearing aids in your original post so don't be disingenuous now.

Fanjo - it's a beautiful Sunday and I don't want to be drawn into this. This thread is not about you. I think the OP was far different to the situation you describe. It's stressful enough without seeing attacks where they're not intended.

Fucks sake I give up!

Aftermay..so sorry your lovely Sunday was spoilt by me being upset by people on here

Ffs

I agree with you malenky.
It's the general public out there, if you can't cope with a child's noisy play in a cafe in the daytime, then you ought to remove yourself...as I said earlier.

You can't control who goes in a cafe...kids just happen to be an easy target for people's frustrations. Most of us wouldn't complain to the staff about a fellow customer's hacking cough, or annoying laugh, or loud mobile phone conversation. People don't complain about adults with SN yelling out, and they can deafening, and at times, frightening. There are lots of ways in which other people's noise can feel intrusive. We don't bitch to the staff about it.

Anyone that complains about toddlers playing and making a loud noise in doing so, is (by my estimation) using a cheap shot to throw their weight around a bit...however mildly. It is not always possible to quieten an animated child, as ALL of us know.

Children should be seen and not heard...it's just not cricket...stiff upper lip....bollocks bollocks.

If you don't like it, you can leave.

aftermay - screaming children have existed for thousands of years and the economy has not yet crumbled. Making out that this is an issue seems to me rather naive.

Surely if you think about it, screaming child plus adult will bring it more money than the tiny minority of people who leave a cafe because they can't cope with the noise?

I live in a really pretentious town full of tourists who're not first-language English (and who might need quiet), and I have never seen an en-masse exit from anywhere because a child is screaming.

No need to be sarcastic and unpleasant and look for personal attacks where these are not intended. I am sorry you are finding it so difficult but I think you're addressing your anger at the wrong people. The OP was not about you. That's not how I saw it, at any rate. A completely different situation.

Sorry, pictish, if I repeated you without acknowledging. Long thread!

Good for you, Malenky. Enjoy your lattes. And thanks for the history lesson. Adieu.

No no - not at all. I wasn't being 'pointed' in saying that.
I was just confirming my agreement with your post. x

Hazeyjane - yes I know of a similar person who lunches out round here with her carer. She screeches very loudly indeed! I'd like to see who will swear blind they would avoid a cafe from now on, if they were disturbed by an adult with SN making a racket. Some people talk a lot of rubbish on here.

pictish I can honestly say, hand on heart, that if I went to eat my lunch in a cafe every day where there was an adult with SN also there every day making frequent high pitched noises, I would no longer go there. Can you not accept that some people are different to you?

I have a hypersensitivity to certain sounds. The source of the high pitched noise is irrelevant - child, adult, child with SN, adult with SN, door that sqeaks at a certain pitch ever time it's opened, metal chair legs on a tiled floor, bus brakes screeching - I cannot physically tolerate it, it hurts me. I would have to leave, and I certainly wouldn't be going back if I knew it was going to happen again.

It isn't a value judgement in the slightest - whether the person has SN doesn't alter the fact that I can't tolerate the noise. I can grit my teeth (literally clenching my teeth) and put up with it for a short time (and frequently have to because these noises are everywhere), but then I have to get away. Who or what is making the noise doesn't alter the pitch of the noise or the effect it has on me.

crabby I would say then that you were in the minority. I'm sorry to hear of your problem, but most folks don't share it in common with you.

I have not read this whole thread, which looks from looking at the beginning and end as though it took some strange twists. I would like to say however that I think the OP is quite reasonable and I say that as the mother of a child with SN who can be disruptive and screamy in public places at times.

If I am in a supermarket or on the street, well, I will move along as soon as we can and anyone who doesn't like the noise or our existence, tough, we'll move as soon as we can and meanwhile, you move if you don't like us. But if we are in somewhere like a cafe, museum etc, where people are there to stay in one place for a while and enjoy themselves in peace and quiet, after a brief attempt to de-escalate we leave. In fact I have done this on a number of occasions. I am not saying my son is unacceptable generally or that he is not entitled to the same things as anyone else, but at that moment he needs to be somewhere else!

Thanks pictish.

crabby

it sounds you might have hyperacusis.

I was diagnosed with it last year and I can't stand certain high pitched noises either; most of the above you described plus tv surround sound, whistling kettle,; whistling, electrical noises and our gashobs when "on" at a certain gasflow!

I think you need to take a hearing test! (btw it's really crap isn't it, some sounds not only hurt but cause me to panic! )

It is also what I do..but when I can't it doesnt make me a bad or inconsiderate person.

Anyway I really am off.

I left for ages after the panto thread and this is basically a rerun of it.

Had hoped things had changed on MN but sadly not.

Life is too short to argue on here.

Not even flouncing..and sorry if I derailed the thread.

Just am off. Thanks to all the nice folk.

I'm aware that I'm a minority pictish, I'm just making the point that you are making very broad and sweeping comments which seem to imply that everyone else is just like you and can tolerate things like that.

Thanks amazing, it sometimes makes me panic too. It never occurred to me to try and get a diagnosis - there's nothing they could do, is there? I'm over sensitive to smells too and some will give me an almost instant headache, and I can't look at certain patterns, or red and blue next to each other - they all go swimmy and make me dizzy. I'm just a bit of a nutter, I think.

Incidentally, if I were in a public space where a person with SN were making high pitched noise, I would consider it my problem, not theirs, and would remove myself.

Mmm yes of course I see that point hothead, I guess the difference is that I am making the decision to leave rather than being told to. But then, thinking more about it: am I making that decision of my own free will or rather because I am afraid of 1. stares or comments, or 2. being told to leave anyway and so being embarrassed? In which case it it really a freely-made decision? So I see that it is a complex issue.

I am the kind of person who likes to be unobtrusive in public (while not shy or unassertive by any means) and whether or not I had a SN child with me, I would tend to remove myself if anything about me or the interaction between me and the envirnment is drawing any kind of attention (exception: if I get REALLY cross!).

I do make a big point of taking DS to a variety of environments where he may or may not be able to stay happily and unscreamingly on any given day, and and just keep it clearly in my mind from the outset that if there is a problem we will leave, and I have prepared for that both practically and emotionally in advance so I don't get upset (or try not to get upset anyway, sometimes it gets the better of me!). With my DS it is the case that on one day he could totally fail to tolerate a place and we could have a disaster and on another day he might love the very same place and have a brilliant time.

The vast majority of people can though Crabby.

My opinon isn't altered because one random person on the internet has an unusual and particular set of circumstances pertaining to them.

As I said, it sounds very crap for you, but to say that the vast majority of people do not suffer likewise, and therefore can tolerate noise on a basic level, is not 'sweeping' or 'broad', it's a fact. They might not want to for various reasons, but they can.

What's your point?

Yes agreed. I work with severely mentally ill adults, and have an autistic child, so would very strongly endorse that opinion!