We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

Fair enough Missmarple - I admit I read your post as being rather derogatory too, but when you explain it like that, I can see I did misinterpret your words.

Its still pretty damn derogatory in my book.

It still sounds derogatory to me,too.

Not discriminating against disabilities means making allowances for people's behaviour if it is caused by their disability.

Not saying "I have a screaming child, whats the difference" and treating DD (and I) exactly the same as if she is NT with no allowances or understanding.

FWiW she doesnt always scream in cafés, and if she was really bad I would probably leave.

But it is not for others to TELL us we should leave.

I care a lot about other people and am considerate in my actions.

But am.not going to hide my DD away because the behaviour caused by her disability might be hard to stomach to.some.

She is noisy on bus sometimes. Should she not be allowed there?

She is also noisy in the museum and library. Does she have no right to go there?

That is my child and she is here and can live her life too.

I will always think of others and be as considerate as possible.

But she shouldn't have a limited life because of noises she.makes.

Very different from "gleefully inflicting"noise on others.

Seriously that is fucking insulting and offensive to me.

'I then said that if she did have an alternative, she really shouldn't inflict the 'misfortune' of not being able to quieten her child on others.

I have had a screaming child and I didn;t do it, why should she? it is almost as if she is saying, 'I have to listen to it, so why shouldn't everyone else?''

So if there was person with learning disabilities in a cafe who made involuntary screeching noises out of excitement or because they are momentarily overwhelmed, do you think that, because they cannot be 'quietened' they shouldn't be inflicted on others?

I'm sorry you think your post has been misinterpreted, and deleted unfairly, but I don't think it has at all.

I'd aso be ashamed to post something so trite, disablist and disgusting as AHouses post.

missmarple can you really not see that a) you are being rude and unreasonable and that b) Society has changed, and where it hasn't changed it needs changing. If I choose to go to a cafe, excersizing the same choice that most other human beings have, and choose to take my chlldren, other people need to understand that if one of them is ticking, stimming, or making self soothing or unusual noises that society needs to learn to tolerate this. For example Ds2 has Asperger Syndrome, one of the comorbids is tourettes. He doesn't swear and he doesn't make many noises, he does have full body tics. However, should he not go for a coffee with his mates, just in case. When I visit him at uni, should I not take him out for a meal in case his ticking offends another customer.
It's outrageous to accuse Fanjo of disturbing other people's peace and quiet, other people should learn to be a little more tolerant, they have choices that some of us don't.

Huh? Not sure what is so disgusting about my post? I certainly think disabled children and adults have a right to go to cafes but I also think people with noise sensitivity issues including hearing aides that can make high-pitched noises physically painful have that right, too. My idea of "advanced warning" is the only thing I could think of that might balance the needs of both groups, certainly not trying to offend!

Haven't read whole thread, but can sympathise with both opinions. So to play devil's advocate:
Imagine this mum and child decide to come in every lunchtime, as it is a child friendly café who accept a screaming baby. Other customers are not happy as they want a more peaceful coffee/lunch, so decide to go elsewhere. This could seriously effect the profitability of the business and even result in its closure. Should the rights of the parent override the right of the café owner to their livelihood? How would parents feel if they resulted in the business closing down because they asserted their needs? I would be mortified!

I don't know how big the café is, but wouldn't it be lovely to have a separate (soundproofed?) area for loud children to go where we, as parents, don't have to feel stressed by their noise and know it won't impact others but we can still get out and have a coffee / meet up with friends .... Maybe that is a business opportunity I could look into as there are so many empty shops in my town? How many MN parents would be interested in and actually use a place like that?

Society has to soften and bend a bit, and accept that sometimes this may cause their peace and quiet to be disturbed.

This Is My Child.

Ahouse..to suggest I need to phone ahead and warn a cafe that I am bringing my disabled DD in so people can finish up and leave to avoid her is one of the most offensive things I have ever read on here.

You should be ashamed.

I honestly think that if you are so easily distracted that you cannot cope with a screaming child, the onus is on you to go elsewhere. I should think that happens to all of us, bad day, pounding headache, you do find you want the quiet cafe not the noisy one.

IMO the only place I would be judgy about a persistently screaming child, is the quiet coach on the train. And then I'd grudgingly accept that sometimes they put your reservation there without asking you. A cafe is not a quiet zone.

I must admit I thought Ahouses suggestion was a poor attempt at humour!

Ds has sensitivity to noise as well as screeching (sometimes he screeches because of the noise!)

I never said "need to".... I said "maybe you could" ... and its to give people a choice, not to avoid your dc who im sure is lovely but because they may have disabilities of their own that they need to accomodate for goodness sakes. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said!

Maybe all disablist arseholes could phone ahead to cafes and warn them so that DD and I can be prepared for the glares.

Or maybe they can request that any noisy children with SN be removed before they get there.

Malenky - of course people can go elsewhere, in a quieter place. Taking their spending money elsewhere.

I think the thread has been derailed from the OP which was about a screeching toddler ignored by his mum & mum's friend. I think the vast majority of people will have more understanding when the noise is unavoidable. They may still leave but you can't really 'blame' either party.

Why is someone with a hearing aide for example for whom some noises are physically painful automatically a disabilist arsehole? I don't really know what the solution is but saying " my dc's disability is the only one that matters" and everyone else is an arsehole if its difficult for them to accommodate due to their own disabilities isn't very nice either!

I now fully expect people to come along and say they have kids with SN and keep them quiet or remove them in interests of other people.

Well..so do I..if I can..actually.

But that's not the point.

It is different for.me to choose to manage DD's behaviour and for me to be TOLD to.

And if I can't keep her quiet it should not mean Ihave to hide her away or it makes me a horrid inconsiderate person gleefully inflicting her noise on others.

No I don't think it means that either Fanjo, sorry I offended you.

house - I know a couple of people who wear hearing aids, neither of them are disablist arseholes.

They wouldn't have any issue with going somewhere else, either.