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AIBU?

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Original poster

We encourage children in our cafe BUT

999 replies

childfriendlycafeowner · 14/06/2013 20:07

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 15/06/2013 17:39

'If the cafe is otherwise acceptable, and there just happened to be a screechy annoying kid in there once, you would go back.

Get sarky and defensive about that as is your want...but you would.'

So it's sarky and defensive to explain to the truth: NO, I didn't go back. EVER. Because part of what makes a café acceptable is its atmosphere. If I go in there and the proprietor lets kids scream away and does FA, then it is and was a dealbreaker.

But carrying on saying I'm lying to try to prove whatever point it is you're trying so desperately to prove.

I'm not lying. I never went back.

expatinscotland · 15/06/2013 17:40

Okay, so now we're at 'most' people. Except people like us, SirC, I guess.

exoticfruits · 15/06/2013 17:44

I might possibly go back- but it would take a while-and I would take a good look before I sat down!
I would prefer the owner not to be wet!

Wishihadabs · 15/06/2013 17:46

On god this brings it all back. Ds was noisy and worse boisterous at 13m till about 3.5 , there realy was very little I could do about it. Books/toys etc kept him quiet for about 10mins max. Hardly enough to order and eat a meal, nevermind have an adult conversation. Attitudes like those on this thread (bad parents, just don't give a shift, selfish) are the reason that I never took him into cafes in that period. I can now see how right that decision was.....not only did I save a fortune, I also weighed less than I did when I conceived him by the time he was 15m old.

I doubt this would have happened had cafe owners/customers been more tolerant and I had spent my time sitting about eating cake. Nowadays when I hear/see a toddler being a toddler I generally give them a friendly smile and am relived its not me responsible for them.

pictish · 15/06/2013 17:47

exotic that is fair enough. I see that as a far more realistic thing to say.

Wishihadabs · 15/06/2013 17:56

FWIW as I said up thread he is now 9 and has beautiful table manners.

Blueskiesandbuttercups · 15/06/2013 17:57

Yanbu.

I had 3 under 15 months including very active twin boys,never subjected others to behaviour like that.How utterly selfish.

4x4 · 15/06/2013 17:57

When we travelled to NZ/Aus over the summer I was really impressed that lots of quite trendy smart cafes ( the sort that had wine and food not just tea and cakes ) had a corner or toy boxes for children.
I'm not suggesting McDonalds play area but perhaps a nice heavy wicker basket with some ebayed quality toys/board books could be the kind of thing that stops the screamers from pissing off customers and makes the parents return
:)

amazingmumof6 · 15/06/2013 18:01

I've been called a liar before, just because the other person was unable to agree to disagree.

Brew time? Smile

ivykaty44 · 15/06/2013 18:16

stepawayfromthescreen We've a reputation for being proper miserable bastards regarding children in the UK and this thread proves it!!

other countries are not miserable then but some places ban the children and make others happy Smile

news.discovery.com/human/life/shopping-center-bans-screaming-children-130220.htm shopping center bans screaming children in Australia

eatocracy.cnn.com/2012/02/22/kids-in-restaurants/ restaurant bans children under 6 in USA

www.today.com/id/39075518/ns/today-parenting_and_family/t/restaurant-parents-no-screaming-kids-allowed/#.UbyhDxafdz8 ban on screaming children USA

ivykaty44 · 15/06/2013 18:21

as for boycotting a cafe - there is a lovely cafe on the outskirts of town where my dd2 refuses to go on a friday after school - as to many times there were shouty screeching toddlers in there and it drove her nuts!

Though I live in a town where the local paper had a cartoon recently with walkers knowing where they were as they could smell the coffee - we have more coffee shops per miles than any other town in England - I reckon Grin

BubaMarra · 15/06/2013 18:25

YABU, you did it all wrong. You ended up with annoyed customers AND an upset mum. You handled it badly and it is this that makes you UR (and not the fact that you didn't want to tolerate toddler's screaming for half an hour). The mother is unreasonable as well, but that is not the question in op.
If you market your cafe as children friendly first you need to understand what comes with children and how much of that you want to tolerate. Then, and more importantly, you need to learn how to handle challenging situations, and your way was not the right way because you ended up with all the parties upset (mum, other customers and yourselves). You need to decide weather you are in the business of making profit or making a point. You better grasp the skill of handling difficult situations especially as you are new place.

SirChenjin · 15/06/2013 18:31

Child friendly does not equal come and do exactly as you and your children please. It means we provide things such as highchairs and food that help to make your visit more pleasant. However, during your visit you should try to consider others and encourage your child to keep noise to a minimum. The owner, who sounds very reasonable and tolerant, did speak to the customer during her visit about it and offered her an outside seating area next time, but got a shrug of the shoulders in return.

DiseasesOfTheSheep · 15/06/2013 18:32

I notice you don't offer any suggestions on how the OP could have handled it better, buba?

I agree that it sounds as though it ended up as a lose-lose situation. I think the owner of the child was BU to allow it to scream for half an hour - as a fellow customer I would not have appreciated that - and I think the OP was justified in some intervention, but perhaps their intervention was ill thought through. But in situations like this, I think you always end up upsetting the parent if they don't see an issue with disturbing others...

Sirzy · 15/06/2013 18:33

Why do some people seem to think child friendly means "children can run wild and shout and scream"

amazingmumof6 · 15/06/2013 18:34

I would not call myself a miserable bastard regarding children.

I have 6 kids, and trust me at times they are far from angelic.
I would have certainly tried to control their behaviour or remove them from that particular situation OP described if no luck.
that is how you teach them what is acceptable or not, right or wrong.

first explain, then warn, finally act.

unless for a good reason like being hurt or ill (or tired or scared) no crying is acceptable for longer than 5-10 mins.

if a child doesn't understand "no" the parents are not teaching them well enough, which is sad and worst for the child who will not learn about boundaries.

(if a child doesn't accept "no" that's a different problem, but also one to be dealt with - not merely to be ignored or justified)

our children go to church with us every Sunday and know how to behave, well most of the time
because we taught them.
literally from day one (we took DS2 to even song the day he was born - I'm off to polish my haloGrin )

a child wailing in a cafe for 30 mins driving away customers while the mother is unable or unwilling to act is unaccaptable

amazingmumof6 · 15/06/2013 18:36

disease
PMSL @ "owner of the child"!Grin

ivykaty44 · 15/06/2013 18:37

Diseaseofthesheep greenfolder Sat 15-Jun-13 15:33:27 she gave exaples of how to handle it and keep both sides happy

SirChenjin · 15/06/2013 18:42

The owner did have a quiet word with the customer and offered her alternative accommodation in their outside area the next time she visited. Sounds like reasonable examples of how a difficult situation should be managed. Quite frankly, telling someone that their child is a bit noisy for other customers and offering to put their drink in a takeaway box is really just a sugar coated wat telling them to 'fuck off', isn't it? You'd have to be quite thick not to see that for what it is.

missmarplestmarymead · 15/06/2013 18:43

the mother was at fault and if she was either too stupid or too wrapped up in herself or her child to realise that it was upsetting others then she should not be made welcome.

if I go out for a cup of coffeee or to see a film, I do expect it to be ruined by parents who think it is perfectly fine for the rest of us to be driven mad by ear splitting shrieks and if they can't quieten them then, for the greater good, leave.

It is everyone's right to delight in their child shrieking but do it at home. it really is as anti social as people who allow their dogs to shit in a beauty place without clearing up.

usualsuspect · 15/06/2013 18:43

If I saw the cafe owner telling someone with a crying child not to come back, I wouldn't use that cafe again.

amazingmumof6 · 15/06/2013 18:43

disclaimer: all my statements are based on assuming the child is healthy.

I have no experience or knowledge on how to deal with children who are disabled or severely ill - I can only assume their parents and carers still have to teach them "no" according to their specific circumstances.

missmarplestmarymead · 15/06/2013 18:46

I spent last Saturday at a wedding in which none of us could hear the service for the roars of a child of about two. Gormless, selfish mother simpering away in a sort of 'oh dear..what can I do' way while she held the sacred vessel.

Appalling, selfish, ignorant and anti social.

ivykaty44 · 15/06/2013 18:54

usualsuspect - but in the Op's case the child wan't crying or upset

ivykaty44 · 15/06/2013 18:58

simpering away in a sort of 'oh dear..what can I do' way it is at that point I go and get the child and leave the room and miss the service but then at least everyone else doesn't miss the service - the mother then comes out and looks a bit of a twat for the rest of the day, but that can't be helped its not the childs fault or the other 110 guests fault