We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

I agree 100% Pictish.
Children shriek occasionally.
They make far more noise than children.
Normal children do not eat in silence.
When my daughter does this screaming thing it's intermittent, not continual. She did it yesterday and the cafe owner chuckled (whilst I shoved a croissant at her, to distract her)
I don't think it's right just to sit there and ignore the noise.
But if the Mother has offered food/drink/toys etc and the screaming continues, she's got 2 options: leave her food untouched and leave or eat it quickly and leave.
Personally noise doesn't bother me, unless it's a very quiet venue where you expect to have a chat. Most child friendly cafés I've been in are noisy places with or without screaming toddlers!

'Make far more noise than adults.
We are most definitely uptight about noise in the uk.
I went to Portugal recently and kids were up till late evening, very far from silent. And restaurant staff were happy to engage with them.

The worst café experience I ever had was with my quiet toddler DD, where the woman at the next table screamed into her mobile phone for over 20 minutes about a hair appointment. The café was the size of my front room.

The owner didn't ask her to shut the fuck up.

I never went back.

There was a group of mums from the tots group I used to (and still do) socialise with after the griup. We would take the kids for lunch at a local cafe - we have a choice of about 4.
There were maybe five mums with kids, and we would have a big table, and even without any screeching or crying, it could be noisy.

In one cafe someone complained, and we were asked to try to keep it down. We duly responded and shushed the kids, even though they weren't really doing anything wrong. We finished quickly and left.

From that day on we never chose that cafe for our lunches. The same scenario in the other ones got a favourable response and we felt very welcome, so that's where we spent our money.

Just saying.

Op, myself and my family have vast experience in the cafe/restaurant/pub business.

"When you are a husband and wife team trying to run a cafe alone, you cannot also be child entertainer. She had toys she was not unhappy she just loved making a noise"

As said before it is the nature of the beast.

You are not child friendly. Children are un predictable.

You handled the whole situation very badly from start to finish, you sound like you are still learning.

Simply do not aim yourselves at children. End of. You have lots of good advice up thread about working out what your market is.

FWIW I am currently looking into another venture that would be very much aimed at people with children.

It would be very obvious to other customers that its a child friendly place. Rather like this place.

www.cachaotoycafe.com/

You would not enter these portals wanting some peace and quiet.

You are at fault, you are not child friendly.

You have no idea what that woman was thinking you saying ..." ohh shes a tinker" does not indicate to her that you are un happy with noise levels.

That indicates....we are child friendly, we do accept children make noise, please relax.

Inside she was probably thinking - thank goodness I can relax here.

Sorry I forgot to add, after the kind " isnt she a tinker" comment I imagine she was then totally flooredand devestated by your end comments.

razzle the tinker comment was made by the mother not the OP!

Also there is a world of difference between an upset/tantrumming child and one who is shrieking non stop like referees whistle for fun. The former deserve some understanding. The latter (as in the OP) deserve no understanding.

The former are also much more bearable than the latter.

I'm coming from a cafe owner pov on this one. I think it would have been better for business to have sucked that one up.

As anasides, I remember a thread on here where the OP was stuck in a train carriage with a kid blowing into a recorder.

That ought to be against the fucking law!!

at the guess the posters who say YABU are the ones who do this exact thing in a cafe. equally annoying are the parents who let their young kids pick things up in antique markets and play with them/damage them and say nothing/do not supervise, some people are just different types of parents. tbh i wouldn't care if i had offended her as i wouldn't want her back in my cafe, sounds like the type that would probably let her kid run around once it found its little legs. fwiw i always left a cafe when dd kicked off. i used to take a book ie sticker book with me to entertain her so she didn't get bored and was less likely to drive us all nuts :)

I have said yabu, and my kids are pretty good - can generally take them anywhere, and that has always been the case. Good behaviour in public places is important to my husband and I.
However, as a cafe owner, you can't choose whch members of the public come into your establishment.

Telling the mother of a noisy, but happy toddler, that she is not welcome, was a poor business decision.

i agree with you pictish i sell childrens books (among other things) and have to grit my teeth and look away when parents let their kids who have dirty hands (having just eaten a bacon & egg roll, etc) touch my books, and quite roughly sometimes too as it often ends up in a sale although when it doesn't, the book(s) they have touched are often pretty much buggered

I think this is one of those threads where Mumsnet differs wildly from the real world! Real children make noise. Oh, and it's very very hard to train babies aged 2 and under to be silent. You can try. And if you do have a quiet one, it's luck, not superior parenting. (I can say that as the Mother of a beautifully behaved teen who was the noisiest baby on the planet and I have two other children, including a toddler, who is not the quiet, shy type)

Yes...she will tell all of her parent pals what was said to her regarding her child.

The customers who complained, won't boycott your cafe because there was an annoying kid in one time. The mother you sent packing will though, and if she is eating out with friends or family, they will all go elsewhere from now on in.

It's a small town and you cannot afford to throw custom away like that.

I said YABU Winter and mine aren't shriekers. Have been in a restaurant with one on an adjacent table and although it was irritating, I felt sorry for the parents and wouldn't dream of expecting them to abandon their meal. It's one of those things, sometimes life's not perfect.

Haven't read the whole thread (I know, sorry!) but if she made no attempt to distract or quieten her child then the mum was unreasonable. If she was trying her best but the child was having none of it, then it's just one of those things, I think.

Nothing more irritating than parents who are oblivious to others when it comes to their children.

When I go to child friendly places I expect there will be children who are not going to behave, that's why when I go out I prefer to use unfriendly children places.

The poor, poor mother. What a terrible thing to say. 2 year olds are unpredictable and virtually untrainable. I have had both types of toddler a noisy whirlwind who would no more sit quietly than fly to the moon and a placid little thing who sat in her high chair beaming at the world, we could and did take her everywhere.

With the first I don't think I ate lunch inside for the first 4 years of his life, unless like your customer I was meeting someone with a much younger baby. I am sure your customer would have rather been anywhere other than in the cafe, but she had arranged to meet her mate so what could she do ?

Ours are 9 and 7 now and can sit through a three course meal

I don't think yabu at all. I also don't agree with those saying that you have necessarily "thrown away custom". What about the customers that were annoyed by the noise? Don't they count at all? Being child friendly doesn't mean that children should be allowed to come in and do whatever they like. Imo people in cafes etc are incredibly patient and kind when it comes to children. I was out with a friend of mine who is lovely but incredibly thick skinned, her child is very screamy. People were hugely tolerant but did start to look slightly pissed off when he began throwing his toys at other diners! Even then no one complained! I think the screaming must have been pretty bad for people to actually say something.

The customers who were annoyed by the noise know that if they go back another day, the chances of that same kid being there at the same time as them again, are pretty much nil.

No one is put off returning to a cafe because there was a screechy toddler there the last time. Particularly in a small town.

The poor, poor mother. What a terrible thing to say

What??? She lets her child scream and shout, doing nothing about it and she's the wronged one? On which planet??

virtually untrainable Bull. You don't just let them do as they please.

she had arranged to meet her mate so what could she do ? Send her a text to say DD is being a little madam - we'll have to meet at ours or another day.

For the love of toasted tea cakes - you can't let a child scream like that in a cafe.

I am put off- I would avoid it!

Oh I definitely would boycott a cafe where children run riot or make a lot of noise.

As a cafe owner you have a very difficult choice to make. Some say that cafes would be mad not to embrace the day time crowd who come along with toddlers and babies in tow but, actually, round here there are plenty of adults who work from home and like to go out to cafes for lunch/a break. So there are non-parents/carers who could provide a decent turnover.

I wish there were more places I could go where there is a good chance of not having to listen to noisy children. You can't even escape in the pub nowadays!