We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

No.

Common Sense should have come from the cafe owner, who perhaps could have tried to actually engage with the mum, talk to her, even briefly and then tried to distract the child.

Actually my DC have always 95% of the time been very well behaved, I have always watched my DC like a hawk and I am one of those parents who says what she means.

On the extremely rare occasion my DC have played up and I have threatened them with leaving, I have left.

That can make it harder for parents like me, to go somewhere where a child is indeed screaming, as it is so easy to think....I can control mine, mine are soooo fantastic....why cant she control hers.

Instead I have tried to think, no - Village and all that....I do not know her back story, I do not know what is going on...maybe she just wanted the loo and felt she had to come in and buy a drink!

Its so easy to stick the knife in, be judgey and mean and nasty.

So much harder to have a small modicum of compassion and as I said perhaps she the so called child friendly op, could have got some games out to help ease the situation.

The child was a toddler after all. The very age where they are pushing boundaries and playing up.

Perhaps OP would like parents to fill out a form before they come in on how they will handle it should their child decide to kick off?

You are going to be tolerant and helpful or you arn't.

Op is not.

Flicktheswitch

I agree with you, totally spot on!

Personally I would not go to Sainburies cafe to expect quiet adult time.

Threads like this always make me sad, it shows how many people want to stick the knife in, so little compassion.

Distraction usually always works with DC, a stranger smiling at them, making a funny face, talking to them, completely takes the wind out of their sails...My Father kept a screamer quiet for a whole plane ride once, just by making a few funny faces every now and then, moving his glasses up and down his face.

It brought us all some peace and quiet. Took two seconds.

Far more productive than a dirty look.

As people get older they also can become very fretful over a lot of noise and they can't cope with it - this is why it is often old people tutting about young children making a lot of noise screaming and shouting as it is more stressful for them.

YANBU I attend very child centered and child friendly conferences with small children/babies in attendance where at the start they tell you that they expect some normal child noises but if the baby/toddler is making too much noise you should leave and attend to their needs and come back when they/you are ready probably in this case when the child turns 5. It is not acceptable to have a 2 year old behaving that way in a cafe and the mother can meet her friend in a place where that behaviour is less likely to happen like soft play, playground at home etc. where the child can be entertained.

Sorry I don't think I made myself clear at first. This child was not having a tantrum, or crying, she was shreaking at the top of her voice, as she was playing with the toys her mum brought for her. She was not unhappy or bored, she was just enjoying making a terrible terrible noise. As for engaging her, that is for her mum to do. When you are a husband and wife team trying to run a cafe alone, you cannot also be child entertainer. She had toys she was not unhappy she just loved making a noise

Razzle - your father need to get himself round to Ops cafe and entertain the children then that come in to the cafe and scream

ivykate
1 go into Sainsbury's because I have to shop! I can't leave my trolley filled with frozen goods etc for half an hour, to sit in the car or go home or do the other things you suggest

so the only place and time your dc sreamed was in sainsbury then?

Razzle The OP was being tolerant. She mentioned to the Mum who just said her child was being a little tinker. She did not ban them - she asked if they would like to sit outside next time. I for one am fed up of being told to show compassion for parents of misbehaving, noisy, out of control children. She may have a back story as you call it, but then the other customers who wanted a quiet drink might have as well.

That's fine op-if you don't want noisy kids in your café then don't advertise yourself as child friendly.Simples.

Do all the people moaning about wanting quiet time in a café not realise that there are actually plenty of places you can go that don't include kids-like naice restaurants or bars? Its amazes me the amount of posters on here who appear to have no social life that doesn't include their kids

Very well put Razzle and your Dad sounds lovely

Ashoething

As the OP states, I am wondering why the previous owners did not encourage families and children, perhaps it didn't fit with the other type of customers.

But if the other customers are regular, then yes I can see how they may now be bothered by the change in dynamics of the cafe by now welcoming children.

I wonder how many other children were in the cafe when this took place.

The way that I have read it, the OP has now said that actually the child was being loud, I'm not quite sure how the OP could have ascertained that she wasn't unhappy or bored and this was the cause of being loud.

And just for the record again, if any of my children were screaming uncontrollably for 30 minutes then yes I would have left the cafe, but now it seems the child was shrieking, which to me I actually read as being loud, as opposed to screaming uncontrollably.

I agree with those that have said perhaps the idea of being so child friendly, when perhaps it is not, and the other customers are not used to loud children, should be re-considered.

I am laughing at the suggestion that the OP should have distracted the child. Should she distract every noisy child that comes in also? When will she find time to run her cafe and actually make a living?

OP you are not not not being unreasonable.

our local coffee shop owners are fab at this family friendly bit. they have high chairs and a buggy park, so the place is not cluttered up. they encourage groups of mums to meet but don't let them take over, so when it is busier, they will expertly move people on.

I have seen them deal with a smilar situation. it went roughly like this
"dchild is a little noisy, would you like a biscuit to distract them?" "i'm afraid dchild is a little noisy for our other customers, would you like me to pop lunch in a box/takeaway cup?"

they are also really good in that if someone makes a move to leave quickly because dc are playing up, they give them a voucher for a free hot drink next time they come in.

Razzle when I go to a cafe it's to have a relaxing cup of cafe and maybe a chat with a friend, it is not to entertain someone else's child so their parents don't have to.

bloody hell. We've a reputation for being proper miserable bastards regarding children in the UK and this thread proves it!!
I've an 18 month old and she's just found her voice. She does this shrieking thing. Not in anger, distress or discomfort. Because she likes the sound it makes.
Should I avoid all cafés, restaurants and public spaces until she's 5?

If she's doing it constantly, over a sustained period of time, then you should leave the cafe stepaway. Why should one child be allowed to drive other customers to distraction? There's nothing 'miserable' about expecting a reasonable level of peace in a cafe. No one's saying children shouldn't make any noise, but constant screaming or shrieking is a different matter. Maybe the reason people are 'miserable bastards regarding children' is because parents in the UK have no idea how to behave when out with their children.

I'm going to go against the grain and say yabu.
Not because I think kids should be allowed to send shock waves of noise through people's souls in cafes and so on, but because most parents don't allow this behaviour so you're not going to come up against it very often. I think was a bit of a one off.
That mother is going to tell anyone who will listen how intolerant she thinks you were. Word of mouth in a small town is everything.

well said arabesque.

And I have to day...the very fact that it was happy racket, rather than a shout of distress or anger, says to me that maybe the other customers were being a bit lemon faced.

I get it - some happy racket is really fucking nerve shredding, but people are far less likely to avoid a cafe in future owing to one annoying customer, than they are to avoid it because they told your toddler to shut up.

To be honest pictish if I heard that story I would be thinking 'Thank God, a restaurant manager who actually does something in these situations'. It is amazing the number of restaurants who think it's okay to take your money but to do absolutely nothing about customers who are disrupting other customers.