To be utterly gobsmacked at the gross negligence regarding this poor pregnant woman?

[WorraLiberty]

Don't click if you're easily upset

OK I know I'm not BU to be gobsmacked...but AIBU to think it shouldn't take a tragedy like this, to make the hospital realise trainee surgeons shouldn't be working alone?

Even as a trainee hairdresser, I had to have a qualified hairdresser watching over me just to cut hair...and yet they were allowed to operate?

The online edition doesn't mention that she leaves behind 3 DCs and a disabled DH. She was the breadwinner and main carer of them all

Is this normal practice do you think?

Of course it's not normal practice.

It is utterly shocking.

I understand that mistakes happen, though as you say, there's no excuse for the surgeons not being supervised, as performing an appendectomy isn't that clear cut on a heavily pregnant woman. I'd be willing to bet a lot of the more senior surgeons hadn't performed one under those circumstances.

So, they removed an ovary instead. As I say, mistakes, even terrible ones, do happen. What I don't understand, at ALL is why, having removed the wrong organ, no one in the operating room turned around and said 'hang on a minute, that's not an appendix, that's an ovary'

I honestly can't get passed that. They don't look alike! The surgeon would not have been working alone, there would've been other medical staff on the theatre, how did no one notice such a glaringly obvious mistake?!

So, so sad. That poor family.

That's my local hospital. TTC at the moment and very concerned about giving birth there. The place is a shambles. There have been so many terrible stories come out of that place since it opened in 2006.

Nothing like as serious obviously, but when I had a broken ankle a few years ago the x ray technician made me move around to get the fracture from different angles. I complained it was hurting but he pulled my ankle to get it the way he wanted it and there was a crack- he had made the fracture worse and ended up broken in three places from where he yanked it. The pain was unreal.

It's also filthy and full of incompetence. God knows what they're playing at over there.

Past not passed the shame!

Doobie I meant is allowing trainee surgeons to operate alone normal practice or not? I have no idea?

SomeDizzy it's my local hospital too and you're right, it's full of filth and incompetence.

It's a fairly new hospital too. I don't know how they allowed it to deteriorate so fast

So so sad . It shouldn't happen to anybody , but what the actual fuck was a trainee surgeon doing with a pregnant woman? With the added risks involved, and everything looking a bit different in that area during pregnancy, it should have been someone senior.

I can't understand how they mistook an ovary for an appendix?

Oh I see what you mean, sorry.

No, it's not normal. Not if he really was a trainee surgeon rather than one with little experience. I don't know the ins and outs, could they have meant trainee as in someone in their first post or something? Even then a massive fuck up has been made, obviously. Routine as an appendectomy is, pregnancy adds in a whole new layer of risks.

I can't understand how they mistook an ovary for an appendix?

Exactly!

I just can't get past that at all. I can see how they might have mistaken it during the actual operation (well actually I can't but you know) and removed it by mistake but how did they not notice it after it was removed?!

it's utterly appalling - somebody should have checked their work

In pregnancy the womb moves everything else around and so anatomy changes

I had my appendix removed at 14 weeks - I had to have a scan to locate it and was not allowed key hole surgery to ensure they could get to it

I feel so sad for that woman and her family

They were 2 trainee surgeons - the paper edition goes into more detail.

It says...

"A trust-wide action plan now says that only a consultant surgeon and consultant anaesthetist can operate on pregnant women, while trainees must be closely supervised at all times."

Well no shit Sherlock. It too a tragedy/farce like this to make them change their policy?

It's heartbreaking
Do you know how far along she was? It doesn't mention in the article.

She was 5 months

It's disgraceful.

Dizzy, I wanted to say you are entitled to give birth anywhere as long as you can get to appointments. When I got pregnant last time I was in tooting and my local hospital, st George's, was in the papers for that teenage boy dying of thirst on a ward ( don't know of you remember, he rang the police to ask for help and the nurses refused them entry).

Anyway, no way on earth was I giving birth there so I referred to Chelsea and westminster instead. You are entitled to go anywhere :)

That poor woman and her poor family

Who the fuck allowed two trainee's unsupervised to operate?

Is it because there was no-one else available and it was an emergency?
Even if it was, like Doobie said, how can they not recognize the difference between an appendix and an ovary? There was other staff, theatre nurses etc, around surely? How can that happen?

I am guessing others in the theatre thought she was meant to be having an ovary removed - maybe even the surgeon himself

That's my local hospital (as it happens, she's from my area). Through the last couple of years, there's been tons of mistakes from Queens. I can't list them off the top of my head, but it seems inordinately frequent?

It's so sad. That poor woman

Our local paper has been plastered with tributes about her. A needless death. She was 5mnths pregnant, she died and all because two unsupervised trainees operated on her.

No idea about the specifics of this case, but...

The use of the word trainee in terms of doctors is somewhat misleading. Presumably they mean registrar. Which is someone who has done 5 years undergraduate training and at least the same post graduation. Senior Registrars will have been "in training" for over 15 years.

The majority of people on here who have had C-Sections will have been performed by registrars.

So no, it isn't unusual to be operated on by a "trainee". Although I echo the pp who said this is somewhat surprising in a pregnant woman.

I cant understand how that could have happened either. The surgeons made a mistake. thats reasonable, mistakes DO happen, sad and terrible though they be, unfortunately they cant be eliminated. But why did no one say 'hang on a minute', that thing you have removed is round, whilst an appendix is long. Healthy tissue looks very different from inflammed tissue. so why did no one pick up on that whilst it was sitting on a pot?

There are a lot of people in an operating theatre, and they are all responsible. Even if you are just a visitor and spot something, like the surgeon removing the wrong kidney, if you notice it, and say nothing, then you are just as liable. I'm not making this up, there was a case a few years ago where the medical student knew it was the wrong kidney, didnt speak up, and the poor patient ended up losing a healthy kidney, with pretty bad outcomes.

MagicKey didn't a woman die during childbirth there fairly recently?

I seem to remember her DH being on the This Morning show talking about it?

From what I remember, that was a needless death too :(

But to pick up on what bigkids said...most of the maternity units in this area closed down when they opened Queens, so there's little choice.

How awful, that poor family

I was operated on by someone who should have been supervised, and because of their bravery they saved my babies life. They were supposed to wait for the other surgeon to get there but I'd had a cord prolapse and my baby was dying, I will be eternally grateful to them for risking themselves to save my baby

Different situation I know but sometimes things aren't always black and white especially in an underfunded and understaffed NHS

I'm assuming all of you who are commenting on how they could mistake an appendix for an ovary are surgeons/histopathologists?

Strangely, body organs don't come handily labelled, and a lot of things in the abdomen look alike - pink and squishy.

Not excusing this - it's absolutely horrific this happened, and obviously they've taken it seriously, but these things are never as black and white as newspaper reports make them seem.

Also, you are aware that most NHS emergency hands on care is provided by 'trainees' who can be anywhere between 1 and 13 years post-qualification? There's lots of talk about certain specialities having consultants doing 'resident' on calls in the future (although it does exist in some places in things like paeds, emergency medicine and anaesthetics). Not saying it's right, but the fact of the matter is that is going to cost a LOT more money than is currently floating around to staff every hospital in the country with 24/7 consultants!

Queens in Romford is my local hospital too.

I know there have been alot of horrendous stories in the press about the Maternity Dept.
But what the Jeff has been going on there?
I had my DC at Harold Wood Hospital and the staff there were brilliant.
Assuming the same staff (more or less) went to Queens when they joined with Oldchurch (I'm assuming the Oldchurch staff transferred) but probably not all the staff from the two sites.

Then they added King George Hospital Maternity to Queens - meaning alot more travelling and a huge area , and alot of very high risk patients.

Very for this lady and her family. But ovary/appendix as to the mix up.

I'm assuming all of you who are commenting on how they could mistake an appendix for an ovary are surgeons/histopathologists?

What a strange thing to assume on a parenting chat site?

Also, you are aware that most NHS emergency hands on care is provided by 'trainees' who can be anywhere between 1 and 13 years post-qualification?

Well no

Hence my question..."Is this normal practice?"

It is disgusting that this happens here in this country and no one is doing anything about it. For this case alone I despise politicians who let this shambles occur. I'm sickened - that poor family x