help Step children/MIL drama - again

[Molson10]

Hiya, sorry I need help and at this time of night I didn't know where to go. I'm new to this site, and I want some advice from mum and grans

I've been married for nearly 5 years, I'm in my 40's and have 2 very difficult step children, they are now young adults and we still can not sit round the table for a nice meal. I sit and try and ignore it, bite my tongue, but it goes on and on and in the end I have to say something. the are rude to each other, my husband, the eldest lived with us for 2 years after her mother throw her out on Christmas Eve. I was never asked if she could move in, it was just a given. I tried to treat her as a young adult, it didn't work and came to a head when her mother dare to call me saying I was out of order.

There mother is difficult even though they have been divorced for 13 years and I was not involved in the break up. Basically the kids have seen the way she treats DH and they think they can do the same. She calls him up and lectures him. she has no one in her life and seems hell bent on ruining ours.

Anyway, this weekend grandparents have been up and a bbq with the kids ended up them staying all weekend with slightly wild dogs, I wasn't happy my hubby had agreed to this previously without asking me. Anyway they were here all weekend and it ended up with another row over the dinner table. This happened a few weeks ago and DD said he was never doing it again until they could grow up. We have had this since the time we met when you couldn't take them for a meal out in the car anything without a fight. They were 14 and 11 when I met them

Finally this evening I couldn't take anymore of them sniggering and whispering, that I said to my husband I was sorry I couldn't take anymore and was leaving the table. Some how this has all blown up and the MIL said she won't be visiting again, comforting a sobbing 20 year old who said 'see why I moved out' And my MIL telling my husband that he has hard a decision to make, which I think is me or them. God I just wish I was a perfect as her !!

She said I don't think you like the kids, I wish I'd siad your right I don't, which I suppose is true, in a way, part of me feels stupid that I do keep going back and trying to do nice things for them. I think that as there mother does nothing with them, they resent me for trying, but I could be wrong. I did say why would all our money for the last 2 years gone on big super holidays for them?

If I'd known when I got married that at this age we would still be going through all this would I have married him ?? And why even though I do try am I always made out to feel its all my fault. MIL has said she won't be visiting again and I think she said I wasn't welcome there.

There a really close family, although we are some way from the rest of them.

I want the opinions of mums and grans, not having children of my own it's so hard. I was estranged from my dad for many years, due to my mother not wanting to him to see us and I so wish I had had a dad like my husband who fights for his kids, although I don't think they deserve him or appreciate him.

Any thought, help or advice would be very much appreciated

thank you
Molson 10

I imagine this sounds very picky but it's very hard as it is to work out exactly how they are behaving at the table and therefore how to deal with it. You mention answering back. Is this that your DH asks them something and they disagree, or is it that they are actually rude in their reply to a perfectly civil question? The sniggering - is this specifically about you, or is this juvenile behaviour between siblings? Are they actually being rude at the table about the meal, the people present etc, or are they talking with general irreverence teenage-style but not about anyone in particular?

I think I would expect any 20 and 17 yos not to be rude about people sitting at the dinner table with them and to have decent table manners. If that can't be managed I would say it was unacceptable - for instance, if anything was said that was insulting to someone there or ungracious about the food provided, I would say that this was bad mannered and that if they can't be polite they should say nothing or leave the table. But your DH also needs to do this - if he just sits there and allows them to be rude to/about you in your presence, while they're eating a meal you've provided, then he is not supporting you as he should be, and is making you look like the mean and nasty person through his refusal to act. There is an argument for letting a certain amount of stuff go but it's not clear how bad what they're saying/doing at the table is.

Oh we've spent many years letting things go and it escalates to get a reaction. My DH will ask them not to swear at the table, or to use their phone at the table, the list is endless and it always gets rude reply, there insulting to each other which again escalates, DH will intervene and they will turn on him.

I think Molson for 6 years you have been trying to put back together a deeply fractured family with little support from your DH and a lot of resentment from the DSC's.

Things obviously reached a tipping point at the last family meal and I wont criticize you for that, we all have expectations of how family should act together but the reality is often very different but now you need to let go.

Your DSC don't seem to want to engage as a family, maybe give them some breathing space for a while, don't book and plan holidays, meals etc for at least 6 months. If things are re-established you need your DH to be very clear as to what behaviour will not be tolerated. He needs to be the driving force getting this family back together not leaving it to you

Oh we've spent many years letting things go and it escalates to get a reaction.

This sounds like my grandmother and sister's style of behaviour. And its not like either of those people didn't get enough positive attention. Though it sounds like your poor SC have had a rough time parenting wise and are lashing out still as they haven't learnt any other appropriate way. However, this is still your DH's problem to resolve.

You can't hide your dislike for them and you were probably wound up before they even arrived, no wonder it kicked off. My Mum is the same with my step brother, pulls faces or remarks at things, I don't think that she realises she is doing it but the consequences are huge.

After years of tension why do you continue to expect it to be any different? You need to stop the tension on your part or distance yourself. You and your husband can be around them without expecting them to the perfect family at a dinner table. Don't eat together at home when tensions are high? Go out for a pub meal/Macdonalds etc or See them outside of the house. Teenagers won't be grateful btw and as they are not your children then you should defer to your DH to pull them on their bad behaviour. (which he should do).

They probably don't like you very much either but realise that they have to suffer you if they want to see their father.

OP, you might get some good advice over at the Step-Parenting forum as well. It's under the Being a Parent topic. There are a lot of experienced stepmothers there who have been through the challenge of getting on with teenage and adult stepchildren.

I am a stepmum, but to a much younger child, so my household is a little different at the moment. But I would say that at your SDs age, it may well be best to step back and leave your DH to sort it out - ditto with MIL. If they don't view you as an authority equal to your DH in the house, trying to sort things out yourself or take the lead on it will be a fool's game. They will only look to your DH - if they see you enforcing manners first, or speaking up about rudeness first, and your DH is sitting (from their POV) passively next to you, they may be getting the impression that it's you pulling the strings in the relationship, and that your DH wants nothing to do with it - wicked stepmother and all that. If he is speaking up about their behavior, of course they will turn on him - it might be one of the few times in their lives that they've ever been told "No" without it escalating to being thrown out of the house - but how intimidated is he going to be by that?

The SD getting thrown out of her mum's house is a difficult one to navigate, and I think you did the right thing taking her in, even though you weren't consulted - it was an emergency. But for smaller events like family gatherings, your DH should not be agreeing to those without including you in that first - you are his wife, and as equally important as he is in the household.

thanks gas, yes I check the step parenting forum, I hadn't looked there.

I know you say you have tried with them, but am wondering if they have already sensed you don't like them. I think it is going to be very very difficult to repair this relationship now with your stepchildren, now that they fact that you dislike them is in the open.

However your DH doesn't seem to have done much to have helped the situation in all fairness

OP could you give is a run through of the meal and this rude behaviour? I just don't get from your posts what is so bad about them, sorry. I'm wondering if your perception of rude is wildly different to everyone else ... particularly those with experience of teens? Maybe your expectations are too high/unrealistic.

How would an adult 'answer back' by the way?

I think part of the problem with this thread is that we can't really see what is going on here.

What, for instance, does "answering back" mean when you are talking about a young adult? Does it mean picking up on everything another adult says and agressively contra-dicting it (=unacceptable rudeness)? Or does it mean voicing a different opinion (=what adults do)?

Does their father treat them like adults or is he still trying (ineffectually) to discipline them like children?

Imo young adult children should be treated like other adults, i.e. they should have to accept the house rules like any other adult and nobody should take any rudeness from them, but the time for trying to mould them or nagging about table manners is over.

Again, it would be interesting to know how much arguing in the car you found unacceptable from an 11yo and a 14yo. Somewhere there is a line between normal teen obnoxiousness and really unacceptable behaviour, but we can't possibly know if your particular DSC's or if you would put that line in the same place as most of us.

BabyDubsEverywhere yes this was my feeling too. From what the OP has said so far I would let some of this go - for instance swearing at the table if not at anyone, I would let go. Telling someone to 'fuck off' = not OK, saying 'I had a fucking awful day' = maybe not ideal but they are adults and can choose whether to use swear words or not. It really is difficult to assess depending on the exact situation.

It is unacceptable rudeness, swearing, we would welcome a discussion at the table. there is nothing grown up or adult, and its continuous. Yes my husband will tell them to stop and its not acceptable but it spirals out of control. Its not nagging about table manners, or sitting up. They don't see there Grandparents much and the 17 year old answered his phone at the table and it went from there, he was told not to was rude to my DH.

5 hour in a car of contnuious arguing, fighting, bad language, arguing with DH when he was trying to get some control, my SD got physical with my DH while he was driving, on journey I'm surprised we weren't killed. I avoid journeys with both of them for a few years now and this was at start of our relationship probably before our wedding when I was in shock at there behaviour and dumstruck.

But what exactly do you mean by 'unacceptable rudeness'? Obviously it isn't unacceptable to them?! And why would either of you try to intervene in sibling arguments? Siblings argue. End of! Doesn't mean they hate each other or disrespect each other. Hell mine are young teens and I leave 'em to it if they're arguing!

Obviously they don't particularly like discussion round the table!

And the car incident must have been when they were what? 11 or 12?

If it was before the wedding then the DSD would have been 13/14 - WAY old enough to know that physically attacking the driver of a car when he is driving is downright dangerous and unacceptable.

Titchy these aren't small young adults who have a bit of sibling banter, they are rude and 'kick off' with each other at the slightest thing, she is over 17 stone, and he's a big rugby player, now I dont' want them arguing at the dinner table because it will get physical and aggressive and its not nice way to behave. And that to swearing, and being rude to there Dad, who is trying to calm it down. If they took it outside then fine let them get on with it.

I don't think it matters what OP considered unacceptable rudeness, as OP's DH also agreed and brought it up. The issue is that OP's DH isn't being 'strong' enough in enforcing it I think, and this sounds like its long been the case.

Ok so basically they're as rough as old boots and you're not

Does your DH REALLY want them to stop mucking around, or does he just say that because you expect him to? TBH they're his kids, and if he's daft enough to let them be rude to him that's his lookout (or he doesn't really mind it...). But it's their relationship and up to them to change it, not you.

If you genuinely don't want them in your house you'll just have to tell your dh that he'll have to see them in a pub or whatever and you don't go. But don't then go moaning about how your dh is excluding you from his family.....

I don't have stepchildren but it seems there are lots of separate issues going on here:

1. YANBU to expect your DH to extend you the courtesy of running plans past you when his DC are coming over. This gives you the opportunity to make your own plans if you can't face them all the time, or steel yourself to react politely but without becoming emotionally drawn in by their behaviour.

2. It's not your job to parent them, teach them table manners etc that's up to your DH and their mum. Disengage, don't rise to the bait. I don't think you were wrong to walk away from the table FWIW. Better than getting wound up and ending up saying something you'd regret!

3. If your DH is willing to put up with them treating him badly, that's his call, but as they are now young adults and you are an adult, you don't have to accept such treatment if they speak to you disrespectfully. Just find a way to firmly but politely let them know that it is unacceptable.

4. Your MIL not visiting sounds like a bonus right now! but longer term, if she is going to drive a wedge between you and your DH, just beware. I guess if they all find a certain (low) standard of behaviour acceptable and you don't, you are unlikely to win this battle, so the question is, are you prepared to put up with this or not?

I really feel for you OP, and for other step parents whose partners have no backbone when it comes to disciplining offspring. I don't think I could deal with that, as in your shoes I would start to lose respect for your DH for not standing up to them.

Thanks titchy, but no, this isn't mucking around, and yes he does, thats why he asked them to stop

Thanks for your thoughts but its quite hurtful, your making assumptions that I don't want them in my house, It was her staffie that I didn't want in the house as she can't control it. And don't worry I won't be moaning about being excluded, I'm far too warn down by it all now

Molson10 I really feel for you. Unless you have been a step parent it is impossible to understand just how difficult it can be. After 18 years I find it is still 2 steps forward and 1 step back. (I have 2 stepchildren who are now 20 and 23).
As yours are now grown up I think it is fine for your DH to see them alone. I think it speaks volumes that the ex threw one of them out. It sounds like she couldn't cope either. Good on you for taking them in and trying.

At this stage it is unlikely that they will change and there is nothing you can do. You have tried. Just be polite, friendly and kind but nothing more. I was told many years ago that you can't change a persons behavior but you can change how you react to their behavior. They are pushing your buttons (as is MIL)- don't let them.

Good luck. I can thoroughly recommend the 'British First Wives Club'. It is full of supportive Step Mums who will be able to offer help and guidance.

thanks puffin, I really appreciate your message and I will look them up. and your right I can't change anyone else, but will work on trying to change how I react or not!

I've been thinking about your situation OP. It sounds like you're naïve about young people and what you can realistically expect from them. E.g., in my opinion, if you don't have the sort of 17 year old who chooses not to answer his phone at the table, then you probably have to put up with it. Unless you want to make an issue of every little thing, which is madness in any relationship. (Perhaps you can register displeasure in a light-hearted way if you have rapport with them but, being honest, you don't sound as if you have the skills or the mindset to get into that at the moment). Did you enjoy a more secure childhood? Is that where you're getting your expectations from?

Your mental image of everyone sitting around the table taking part in a discussion is lovely but I feel it would probably be the product of twenty years of patient grafting - a lifetime of unconditional acceptance and wisely drawing boundaries. And quite possibly not even then, given that you can't control how people turn out.

Do you really think you might be being bullied? It sounds like your DP is - at times - but doesn't care. Fine. But if you really fear for your safety and are experiencing extreme anxiety at being around these people for that reason, then you should be protected from having to do that. Your stepkids have a right to see their dad regardless but perhaps not with you. And should you have counselling to work through that fear? I ask because you seem so appreciative of any post offering an opinion that you shouldn't have to go through this. Not that the issue's going to disappear, because you married a package and you cannot stand between your DP and his kids. But if you're not safe, that's different.

I'm not frightened of them, I just want them to have a meal without kicking off, being rude and swearing. Is that really such an unrealisitic expectation?

OP did not say she stormed off, just that she left the table

The children are not 11 and 14 now, that's the age they were when she met them first

I have left the table before if I think I'm going to lose my temper.

Honestly read the thread