Am I being a sanctimonious nobber re: Daily Mail?

[Undertone]

OK - so I know I shouldn't have but I read Liz Jones' latest piece of trash in the Mail on Sunday website today. I won't link, but to paraphrase: she feels entitled to use the emergency services (a&e, fire brigade) for trivial reasons (removing an earring, a stuck kitten) because she 'pays her taxes' and goes private for most things anyway. The piece ended on a note saying she admired Stephen Fry's bravery - NOT for talking about his suicide attempt but for the fact that he tried to do it with pills. I know - WTF?!

Anyway - she's a sadly limited woman used as a troll to drive DM traffic. But something in me snapped today.

Casual acceptance of the bigoted, chauvinistic, entitled and sometimes downright dangerous opinions she and other DM columnists get published is toxic. Yes there are lots of people that protest, and the DM editors rub their scaly hands with glee at all the attention it gains them, but outside of the Twitter and outraged lefty bubble there are millions of people who read it and go "oh - that's a published opinion. Must be legit." And by tiny increments flawed, lazy and insular patterns of thought become ever more embedded.

Anyway - (I AM getting to the point) I don't have many friends on Facebook - quite a tight group really - and I posted a status about how I'd had it with the DM and the next time somebody admitted to reading it I would challenge them about it (meaning, really, someone in a pub or at work).

So who should bloody pop up and comment on this status but one of my good female friends (she and I are going on hol together in a few weeks, just the 2 of us) saying "I am a DM reader and proud - sorry!"

A bit of context - I love her to pieces and I have known her for about 13 years now. She and I have clashed on issues before (she doesn't believe in feminism, and thinks it is unfair to men - I have had to start avoiding the subject with her now because she doesn't accept my beliefs and won't let it go when an argument has run its course).

I want to challenge her about it, I want to explain to her why (from an outsider POV as a non-DM reader) I find it such an offensive newspaper and feel so strongly about it. It would be best if I just picked up the phone to her now and had a discussion - but is that weird? I mean - posting a flippant FB remark and then someone ringing you up to argue about it? Should I send her an email?

Crucially I want to explain myself without insulting her so that the holiday isn't awkward. But it was a surprise that she reads the DM and I do unfortunately think a bit less of her. This is what I am worried will come out in a spat.

Help - AIBU to challenge her? Maybe she missed all the terrible stories I've seen Can you help me with some links to send her?

If you didn't know she read it before this, you knew her views on various things, and accepted them as hers, why does it matter?

She sounds a bit thick tbh. She's probably nice but I'd imagine there's very little point engaging with her on this one.

Yanbu to dislike the DM and everything it stands for. It is a vile rag.

Not sure how you can challenge her without implying she doesn't do much deep thinking. The fact that it's clearly true isn't the point,she will react very defensively I think. I wouldn't say anything to her on Facebook at any rate. Maybe wait until you next see her and wheedle the DM into the conversation and go from there?

Send a little hearted message saying "we'll have to see about that won't we?, I seem to remember we are going on holiday together"

honestly, if she thinks feminism is unfair on men I doubt you will be able to get her to see your pov re dm. Can it be one of those things you just bite your tongue about for an easy friendship? I have a friend who blames feminism for taking away her choice to be a stay at home mum. She is a er, stay at home mum. I don't talk to her about feminism anymore... Sometimes its just easier to let things go! Sorry this probably isn't all that helpful but some people are just not open to changing their minds and your friend might well be one of them

i find it odd you want to win this argument with a friend.

let it go if you want to be friends

also in the spirit of your post - i have to challenge you, today you have helped the DM by reading it online, i am totally boycotting it now, i hate it so much. I pick people up on mn that post a DM link without telling me it is a DM link, and i cannot understand why anyone gives this paper ANY money directly or indirectly though clicks and advertising revenue

Oh I don't know why it matters. Just that by not taking the opportunity to challenge support of the DM, I feel I am being complicit in it somehow? It's precisely because people don't hear an opposing view that a lot of the tosh in there gets unquestionably accepted.

What is most concerning to me is the fact that LJ is being used as cannon fodder by that vile rag when she clearly has serious psychological and emotional problems. Albeit self reported and subjective, her entire life seems blighted by her extremely dysfunctional personality. She is to be pitied. As are her pets who appear to have a death rate/accident rate on a par with a TT racer.

Custardo - yes I am ashamed I read an article today.Someone I follow on Twitter took a photo of the article and posted it to spare link traffic to it, but I couldn't read the text in the photo on my phone.

If this link doesn't do the trick she's beyond it tbh.

www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/aug/13/dailymail-twitter

And Waitrose give the DM away free upon presentation of a Waitrose card. I take a copy and put it in the bin so there is one less copy to be given away.

I stopped guiltily reading the DM showbiz section online after the Philpott and Woolwich incidents because I just couldn't stomach being exposed to that awful stuff. I havent read the paper copy since Xmas 2011.

There's no way in the world I'm going to crawl through that filth to send you links!

Also I can't imagine your friend, if she doesn't even know why being a DM reader is not something to be proud of, is going to take any notice anyway. As you said, its a flippant FB remark. Your best bet might be to post stuff as you see it on an ongoing basis.

The real problem with the vileness of the DM is that it spreads hate and fear, and people who have never met gypsies or lived near black people or don't know any immigrants or people on benefits start to believe it - the effect is clear in some of my family and friends.

www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/aug/13/dailymail-twitter

God I'd forgotten about that mignonette.

Meh. I sent her the link to that Guardian article. She can make up her own mind.

So first of all you are assuming that people who real the Daily Mail simply read what is written and automatically take this as valid and have no critical capacity to weigh up the stories and decide whether or not it's a valid view point.

But if you start reading the Guardian you magically gain critical capacity to nod and smile and know everything in there is right.

I would suggest that most papers have a selection of their audience who simply take what the read as fact whilst they have some who are intelligent enough to disagree with what they are reading.

Personally I have to say that some of the worst people I've ever met for not being able to form their own opinion and blindly taking the printed word as gospel have been committed Guardian readers.

In my house we take the Guardian, i, The Times, the Sun, The Daily Mail, The Observer and sometime the Independent. Because I like to read a broad range of view points on issues and make up my mind myself.

Quite frankly it's none of your business which newspaper your friends read or people you see in public and you don't have the right to impose your political views on them or dictate what they do or don't read.

Honestly, some left wing people frighten me these days - they're opinion that their way is the right way and any dissenters must be crushed. That social pressure must be applied to ensure all people (at least publicly) appear to concur to their viewpoint and behave in a way acceptable to their politics.

It's a cliche but yes, smacks of McCarthyism, Nazism, Stalinism, etc, etc

I have a daily mail app , mainly to be able to comment on articles and discuss different opinions, a bit like on here really . I mostly get red arrowed but at least I try to redress the balance.

if any one who read that paper had an ounce of deceny they would boycott it. now give the twats money to have 'a blanced critical viewpoint'

I do quite like the guardian, but it can be very smug and precious and sometimes get right up my nose as well. I skim them both from time to time...

That being said, I really thought the dm couldn't shock me but that link really shocked me! Dear god, how fucking ignorant do you need to be as a journalist to use that quote! Mignonette, thanks for posting that.

Bridget I obtain my news from a variety of sources - just like you.

My friend does not. My original statement that I wanted to challenge the Daily Mail readers I met was based on the fact that, like you, I worry that people obtain the information upon which they base their opinions from a limited source. And it so happens that of all news sources, the DM seems to be the most cavalier with the spin they put on articles on order to achieve a relentlessly narrow-minded agenda.

You seem to have taken quite a (prejudiced) leap based on what I have written. I recommend a good book - 'The Righteous Mind' by Johnathan Haidt. He explains why it's so hard for people on the left and right wings to emote with one another and understand each others' viewpoints (link

BridgetBidet I wish I had not exposted with you, I agree totally with you.

m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5eBT6OSr1TI

Relevant, I think.

Agree that the DM is utter rubbish, but I agree with Bridget that this just smacks off 'ooh the masses don't know what's good for them' and need to be helped to understand which newspapers are best

smacks of, not smacks off, sorry.

If you want to explain how you feel then why not say something like 'don't you think it was awful how the DM exploited x for x" like the Philpott case or something