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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be saddened by this casual gender stereotyping?

188 replies

SuiGeneris · 09/06/2013 06:42

DS went to a third birthday party recently. Lovely family that we would like to get to know more. As seems common round here there was an entertainer who spun out a story and games on a pirate theme. It started off with there being an island full of monsters that the boys (aka pirates) were asked to scare away "so that it would be safe for the princesses to come onto the island". I was stunned (and, it must be said, sad and irritated) that in this day and age, in London, in an educated environment, this should be acceptable. Of course the hostess probably had not heard the story before and the other parents would not have said anything through politeness but.. Really??

As it happens DS asked to be a princess when it came to the face painting and none of the other children said anything. At just 3 I think they are unaware of stereotypes, so why foist them on them?

OP posts:
FacebookWanker · 09/06/2013 10:23

I agree with MoleyMick. I have never pushed pink or 'girly' stuff on DD. at 3.5 she is obsessed with pink. I'm sure people think I've pushed it on her, but I haven't. I'm always telling her that there are more colours in the world and that girls and boys can be/do whatever they want to.

People on here do tend to show off if their girls like super heros and their boys like pink.

As well as loving pink, DD also loves worms, snails, super heros etc, and the boys of her age that I know love dressing up in dresses etc.

At playgroup only ONCE have I heard a mum say to a boy "no, that's for girls" Children are mostly free to play with whatever they want to and they all play with all the toys.

I will continue to encourage DD, but I know I can't control what other people think.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 09/06/2013 10:23

Parties by their very nature are over exaggerated gender stereotypical events. Most the girls attending will be in dresses. The boys jeans.

Everything from the napkins and plates and cups to the party bags , wrapping paper and the cake will be in theme with what sex the birthday child is.

It's just how it is. Most people don't actually give a second thought to how it may be perceived they just want to make their child happy.

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:23

oh sorry iswym

Ilikethebreeze · 09/06/2013 10:23

Also, thinking about it, if I want to call my DD girl at 90 I will.

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:23

So your child DD works with adult men? Really?
(only thing I can think of is acting)

Ilikethebreeze · 09/06/2013 10:24

And If I want to post girl on here I will.

hackmum · 09/06/2013 10:24

YANBU. Anyone would think we were still living in the 19th century. What an awful message to send, both to the boys and the girls.

TeapotsInJune · 09/06/2013 10:25

I think it does Cloverer, yes, but to be honest in some ways that highlights my issue with (or Keith, as the iPad would have it!) this sort of party.

So we have pirates, who were, historically male. They were also absolute bastards who stole and raped and pillaged. No one has a problem with their DS (or DD for that matter) emulating that character. If I objected on those grounds, someone would doubtless say "oh, yabu, it's a kids party, they don't know or care!" So boys and girls can be pirates - fine.

Then we have the weak helpless females - Snow White, Sleeping Beauty are probably the two most famous examples, and these are traditionally female. But we don't want our girls to dress up as them - our DSs though, well, that is the sign of a truly well adjusted kid! Let him wear pink, let him wear glitter, add a few anecdotes of our own sons wearing this or saying that or doing that. And let's congratulate ourselves on raising girls who are pirates and boys who are princesses!

Neither of those role models are what I want my son or daughter to aspire to. But it misses the point - it isn't intended to be taken seriously. We could over analyse every kids' game and think about the connotations or accept it as a daft bit of fun - I am inclined towards the latter!

LinusVanPelt · 09/06/2013 10:27

I haven't assumed anything about your dd, I haven't mentioned her at all. I have no idea what you're on about with your fish and mince post.

And a girl becomes a woman around the same time age that a boy becomes a man. The difference is that he is generally then referred to as a man, especially in more formal settings like work, while she is often still referred to as a girl. Did you really need me to spell that out?

Ilikethebreeze · 09/06/2013 10:29

But you still havent said at what age.

lisianthus · 09/06/2013 10:29

YANBU

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:32

breeze does your child DD really work with adult men? That is what you seem to have said

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:32

There is no "age"
I suspect from the age of about 14, boys are called "young men" and from 17/18 they are called "men"

Ilikethebreeze · 09/06/2013 10:35

Stealth I did not use the term child DD.

Yes DD works with adult men, and younger men, and young men I presume and whatever.

And like I said, if I want to post girls all over the internet, I shall do.

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:38

OK I was confused by this, what wrong assumption did Linus make (as far as I could tell she was assuming your DD was an adult)

LinusVanPelt Sun 09-Jun-13 10:18:43

if my adult dd described herself at work as "a girl" in "a man's environment," which is the context ilikethebreeze used it in, I' d do her the favour of pointing out how that use of language infantilises women and portrays them as less capable and not-to-be-taken-seriously in the workplace.

Ilikethebreeze Sun 09-Jun-13 10:21:21

Linus, at what age does a gril turn into a woman?
You have wrongly assumed the age of my DD.

Ilikethebreeze · 09/06/2013 10:42

All perfectly makes sense to me.
And I am cetainly not going to risk outing myself by providing more specific details.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 09/06/2013 10:44

teapots says it all perfectly!!

snooter · 09/06/2013 10:44

Might have been better to have male & female pirates & kings & queens coming onto the island but hey, it was a toddlers' party - chill!

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:47

no fair enough. Just don't understand what the wrong assumption was - as far as I could tell Linus assumed your dd was an adult.

landofsoapandglory · 09/06/2013 10:48

The party wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. The children won't have been bothered, in 6 months time hardly any of them will remember the entertainer.

It is not something I would ever be 'saddened' about!

LinusVanPelt · 09/06/2013 10:50

ilike, why do you want me to name an age? So i can say "18" and then you can cleverly tell me your dd is sixteen and therefore a girl?

I've already pointed out that I haven't said anything (much less "wrongly assumed") anything about your dd, and if you're honest about it you weren't just talking about her either. You asked whether those of us who have a problem with sexist stereotypes would encourage our daughters, when they are older, to go into "familiar girls jobs" or into "men's environments" where only a small percentage working there were "girls".

I replied that my dd will be a woman, not a girl, when she's an adult in the workplace. It's nothing to do with how old your dd is. You are missing the point.

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2013 10:51

I suspect what you mean is "oops, got that wrong and don't want to admit to it"
But I'll leave it for now and assume that is the case.

slightlysoupstained · 09/06/2013 10:54

Play is deadly serious. Anyone saying "ooooh, it's just a GAME, jog on you silly person how could you ever believe that lifelong skills and attitudes could be learnt through PLAYING" is a bit dim, tbh.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom · 09/06/2013 10:59

Yes yes yes slightlysoup.

TeapotsInJune · 09/06/2013 11:08

We are in trouble then - DDs game of choice is I am a shark and she is Nemo! Grin

I don't think anyone is saying that though slightly, I do think play is important, of course it is. However, the children don't see it as important. It only 'matters' from an adult perspective.

I feel the 'princess', the helpless, pathetic creature who can only be saved through a mans strength and usually, violence, a horrid one with adult connotations attached to it (though interestingly no one minds when their son wants to be weak and helpless Hmm) but children don't see that. They see sparkly dresses. So if your daughter says 'mummy, I want to be a princess when I grow up!' she is not saying or thinking about being a cute helpless little thing, she's thinking about pretty dresses.

The first film I remember watching was Swan Lake (a 1982 cartoon), I was thrilled to find it on YouTube and as an adult saw hugely sexist connotations in it which went over my head as a child. Would I show it to DD - yes, I dare say that like me she would just be enchanted with the story and not care about the connotations.

Sometimes I think we can place too much adult importance on fantasy role play - that doesn't mean the role play in itself isn't important, it means the associations we may have as adults don't matter to kids.

The truth is that children, just like adult, like to do what makes them happy.