To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

[ballinacup]

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

babyheave yes it is as good as you would expect Well I think so anyway. There are the pressures of the under resourced NHS, not enough time to spend with women, internal politics, external politics, lack of autonomy etc. but I still think it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. Sorry to derail!

A couple of things:

1. Having a degree is fine, but it isn't the be all and end all. I once worked with a Science teacher who couldn't spell. Also, what about transferrable skills? My Maths teacher had a degree in Engineering, not Maths, but he could teach Maths.
2. DH used to work in IT support in a school and they had him "teach" a couple of lessons because the IT teachers didn't know how networks worked. There will be some areas, e.g. technology, where the ex-Army types will quite honestly, bring so much modern, real-life experience to the teaching. More so than teachers will be able to.
3. There are some amazing teachers, there a some crap ones
4. Some ex-Army will make the transition into teaching, some won't. It will only work if the systems are in place to ensure only the best and most able are selected.
5. Discipline and self-management may work on some children and is definitely a good thing. Perhaps they'll stop the rewarding of naughtiness with a trip to the chill-out room for milkshakes and toast. However, the issues and needs of some children are so complex and serious that being barked at will just make everything worse.
6. Gove is an muppet who lives in the past and definitely wants to reduce the salaries of teachers and break the unions. He seems to envisage schools where all children sit quietly in rows. They'll be learning Latin next...

I teach Latin

Aykarralyu
"Over the years, however, they will have completed all manner of high level training (much of it engineering) that has no civilian equivalent."

first: - Name me a piece of engineering equipment that has no civilian equivalent.

Second: - many engineers do not make good teachers. (the same as anyone else.

Third: - Enginnering is more than replacing parts.

I have said a number of time that I am not and would never want to be a primary school teacher.

Arisbottle, I echo kim147 - I agree with everything you say, except work life balance. Doesn't exist in primary teaching,

Good discipline is not about shouting , punishing or belittle children( sure the army don't do it that much) , as above about good management. There are some schools were you feel like its over the top ( as in the trenches) . If you are a teacher (I am) jobs are hard to come by..... You need decent level of literacy for English.... Many soldiers have basic education. Hmmm could be interesting.....

I don't see why it should upset you to say that my colleagues and I mostly have a good work life balance, particularly as I said it was different for primary school teachers.

I don't work 9-5, I work long hours in term time during the week but the weekends and long holidays are mine.i know very few people in professional jobs who work 9-5 and even fewer with my pension and none with my holidays, expect teachers.

I have never been attacked for my holidays

I think to point out the holidays is fair enough. I work very long hours during term time , between 12 and 15 hours a day. But I only have to do that for a maximum of six weeks at a time. Whenever I feel tired or stressed I remind myself of that.

I do think I am onto a good thing

one of ds1's favourite teachers is an Ex naval officer. There are lots of transferable skills & a shortage of men in teaching.

As long as they chose the right people then i dont see the problem

does this mean we can look forward to seeing Prince Harry down with the Y 11s?
The Head of my previous school - I thankfully work elsewhere now - is ex-military and he is an absolute c**t. Everyone - all the kids and all the staff - totes hate him.

Have any of the anti- troops posters actually read the info behind this properly?

For a start, the teachers will have a degree when they are finished training. They will come out with a BEd in 2 years, rather than 3 years. This is not that earth shattering news TBH- other degree courses are now being reduced to 2 years and many more could be.

The selection will be 'rigorous' which I assume means they will still need the mandatory maths and English GCSE passes.

I don't think this training is that inferior to a PGCE which takes 39 weeks.

There are already training courses for teaches in place which bring teachers up to subject knowledge if they have other qualifications and want to teach- this is not something new.

Most if not all unis offering PGCEs accept applicants with transferable degrees- Durham for example is a top trainer for teachers- outstanding by Ofsted- and they want people with engineering and physics degrees to train as maths teachers.

Many, many years ago teachers trained on the job, I had a friend whose father became a primary head post war - he didn't have a degree but was fast track trained.

The simple truth is that you don't need a degree to teach primary age children. It's not rocket science- it's about compassion, people management, an interest in children and their learning, and the ability to inspire.

I am a bit surprised at how troops have been chosen as a special case, and can't quite see why, but if they are selected carefully and show an aptitude for the role , then they are capable of being just as good a teacher as many people who train through current routes into teaching.

This gives some facts.

www.brighton.ac.uk/news/2013/130607troops_to_teachers.php

One of my best friends was one of the three people responsible for developing this project and bringing it to fruition and she told me just a few days ago that despite it being her work, she's unsure if she agrees with it's policies.

There used to be 2 year programs offered at university - they were called HND not degrees. They did not lead to a graduate level of education. Offering so-called degrees in 2 years is just another form of dumbing down the system.

For all the cries that degrees can be done in 2 years, at my former RG institution, there were talks of extending the 4 year degree programme to 4.5 years to allow time for coverage of all the material students no longer came equipped with from A'level. This was a course which required straight A's in sciences at A'level.

A degree is not about sitting in the lectures, then regurgitating the info in the exam. The higher level thinking and learning skills which come with READING for a degree are only possible given time to reflect upon learning and with independent exploration of the field. These things lead to 'deeper' learning and fundamental understanding of and feeling for your subject. Anyone who doesn't do these things as part of their degree completely misses the point of higher education.

Magrat said exactly what I was going to say.

To teach my subject I draw on a two year a level course , a three year degree, my masters and my PGCE. That cannot be compared to a two year course.

To be fair, the vast majority of posters on this thread are not anti military, just concerned about the repercussions of the scheme. There were a couple of really offensive posters who used phrases l

Like they 'wouldn't want their children near ex forces' individuals. Thankfully they have been in the small minority and most of the discussion on here has been pretty rational and informed- I think so anyway, given this is an AIBU thread!

I think Gove has a plan to replace all the current teachers who are against all of his new plans and replace them with people who are trained to accept orders without question.