To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

[ballinacup]

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

I can think of almost one teacher from most subject areas in my school that has an Oxbridge degree, every subject has teachers from RG universities. We don't discuss people's degree classifications but there are a fair few of us with 1sts.

Laqueen - I'm interested as to what you'd make of me.

I teach English to A level, both Literature and Language. I am regarded within my dept as the best A level teacher there, with the possible exception of my HoD. I have never been graded lower than Good with Outstanding Features, and usually as Outstanding. The students also recognise my talent and commitment to their learning - today I had several cards and emails from my outgoing year 13,thanking me for my teaching.

Yet I am not an English graduate. I do have an A at A level - from 1990, when that really meant something - but my degree (2:1) is in American studies. Does that mean I am not up to the job, iyo?

(genuine qu, btw, not being arsey)

Why is it wrong, that is how I work and it was one of my main motivations for going into teaching.

I've got a masters in maths from a RG uni and experience in industry. I also studied maths abroad so as well as teaching maths I have dabbled in languages.

I don't think I'm mediocre either.

I'm willing to bet arisbottle is not an English teacher.

No. I work in term time. I go into school for results days.

sassy, do you know enough about the subject to challenge the content of the A'level curriculum? Being graded as 'good' or 'outstanding' by ofsted means nothing more than being able to tick the requisite ofsted boxes.

I have seen apparently 'outstanding' teachers murder the subject content of my specialist area at A'level, but that didn't matter because the people observing them didn't know any better either and so wouldn't have spotted their blunders.

I teach history

I did GCSEs, A-levels, and a science degree, but it was an ex-forces 'knuckle-dragger' (ie not a degree educated officer, but an ex-navigator,) who finally managed to explain to me the whats, whys and hows of trigonometry, where my school teachers failed. They were the first of many ex-forces teachers I have had in my aviation career who took me through subjects firmly grounded in physics, maths, biology, geography and law. They are (without exception) eloquent, intelligent, deeply knowledgable about their subjects and brilliant at getting the best out of people. The one's I've had have been excellent teachers - perhaps if I had had teachers like them at school I might have become a vet rather than years later becoming a pilot.

I'm fairly sure that if this scheme were implemented there would be a reasonable interview process to ensure that those selected are suitable. Or we could just farm off into security guard jobs all these thousands of men and women who have been educated and developed over decades at the British taxpayers expense! Which would be a waste of good teachers imo.

Backinthebox, Pilot sounds a lot more fun than Vet! :)

Nothing could tempt me to be a primary school teacher, the many posts on here about overworked primary school teaches has convinced me of that.

Lol at Margrat.

Yes, I do. I certainly do. And if I come across new things I don't know, or don't feel completely confident of, or need to revise... I do so.

I graduated from an RG university and have As in my A Levels (from the days before A*s) I am intelligent and well educated. I am also an outstanding teacher in my subject. Yet I teach in a school that has recently com out of special measures, in a county with grammar schools. I think that the kids I teach deserve decent teachers and intend to stay put. I didn't go into teaching for the money.

There is such a lot of emphasis on subject knowlege (and rightly so) but my experience is that my (1st class, Russell Group degree) had little overlap with what I actually teach in the classroom (yes the same subject), the GTP training I did included no subject specialist training and none of the assessors had the knowledge of my subject to know if I had any subject knowledge or not! So forgive me if I now take the emphasis on subject knowledge with a pinch of salt. It is much more important that you are keen to go on learning, to look things up, to build on what you already know etc rather than that you come with some perfect body of existing 'subject knowledge' -- at least in some subjects.

IMO if ex forces can contribute to increasing the number of good Maths and Physics teachers and encourage students (especially girls) to take an interest in STEM subjects, that would be very worthwhile. There is a LOT of competition for those skills and ex-forces would probably benefit from a designated programme rather than having to find their way through the nearly impenetrable thicket and baffling language of traditional teacher training.

and do those without a degree in the subject they teach to A'level have a good understanding of what students who may want to study the subject further will need in terms of subject knowledge? Can you talk to those pupils knowledgeably about what will be expected from them at the next stage?

I think it's designed to metaphorically kick the sht out of those nasty badly behaved failing schools in deprived areas that people move house to get away from. Gove seems to have forgotten that there is a reason why these schools are the way they are and bringing in the heavies is not going to change anything. It will only make a bunch of deprived children feel more sht than they already do.

This government is run by people with a warped sense of reality. They really ought to spend a week in one of these schools and perhaps then they might be able to do something constructive.

Just from my personal acquaintance, plenty of RG grads go into teaching. Nearly half the teachers at DH's school went to Oxbridge and I'd say most of the rest are RG grads. This is a top independent school, mind, so not particularly representative. I don't know what the makeup of your average comp would look like, but certainly nowhere near the same.

I disagree that subject knowledge isn't vital for teaching GCSE and A-level though. DH tutors a girl privately who is doing her A-levels at a school nearby. She comes to him because she is incredibly bright, wants to achieve A*, and her own teacher just doesn't have the subject knowledge to be able to stretch her.

phiny- I used to think that too, but having worked with 2 PGCE students this year, the difference between the one with, and the one without subject knowledge was phenomenal.

I agree, Kim, but these are exactly the subjects most likely to be taught by non-specialists.

wondering I think you're onto something. This does seem suspiciously like a half-cocked plan to place "tough" teachers into deprived schools, where the powers-that-be think it doesn't really matter if the teacher has a degree or not.

I certainly can, and do.

As far as English Lit is concerned, it is often largely about skills and articulacy, rather than actual knowledge - about knowing HOW to analyse lit well, rather than having sat through a lecture in which a professor analysed a text on your behalf. The American lit part of my degree honed those skills for me, meaning that when I know have to teach books by English writers, I have the ability to do so well.