AIBU to think that a headteacher shouldn't go on holiday during term time

[iwenttohollywoodtoo]

I found out today that the headteacher at DD's school is on holiday abroad and won't be in school until tomorrow.

Technically she has only missed two days so AIBU to think this is out of order, especially given that the school has a policy of not authorising holidays for pupils.

Like many other parents would do, I booked a flight a day earlier when we went away at Xmas (at significant extra £), to make sure DD didn't miss school .

I am to be honest. AIBU?

I agree that pupils and parents often jump to conclusions about staff absence. My father died unexpectedly and I had a week of compassionate leave. I emailed in work and even went in to collect marking but I still returned to parental complaints about my 'holiday'.

One of my colleagues has been absent for nearly a full year as he has had surgery and radiotherapy for a brain tumour. He has started a phased return but was mortified to find out that the rumour mill had deemed him a paedophile, and it has set his recovery back. Parents were informed that he was unwell, but decided amongst themselves that this was a lie.

WRT headteachers, schools often have to cope with them being off the premises. Our HT can be at meetings outside of school 3 or 4 days a week. He frequently doesn't leave school until after 8pm and is in for all but a week or two in the summer holidays. Not a job I would want for all the tea in china.

Are you suggesting that a parent whose child has a graduation ceremony should miss it unless the head gives permission for a family to take two weeks off for a cheaper holiday?

The difficulty if you differentiate between a graduation ceremony and a cheap family holiday on principle is that you are making value judgements on your (or the HT's) perception of worth or importance. To the families involved the events may have equal importance.

It drives me up the wall they way people jump to conclusions. A few years ago I collapsed in the classroom and then had 3 weeks off with an illness. When I returned to work I had lots of parents ask me about my holiday and where I had been and didn't we have long enough school holidays.....and lots of others telling me they were sorry my mother had died.....You would have though collapsing in front of the children would have provided a clue as to the reason for my absence but no.....

Not being funny here worry but there is a world of difference and it should be seen as so. In no other job would it be a problem. Time would be booked off for a graduation as a holiday. In a school it would be unpaid leave. You appear to be so wrapped up in parental rights that you forget teachers are people and parents too. I took half a
Day unpaid to take DS to school on his first day. I am unable to book holiday to take him to hospital appointments, go to sports' day, be a helper on a school trip. I would not be granted leave of absence for any of these. So yes a HT will look at why a teacher is asking for leave, just as any employer would. It is a world away from a request where the reason is to save money. I am not against this at all but the two cannot and should not be compared.

I doubt very much the head teacher is on holiday. More likely a course or could be an extenuating circumstance such as a close family member getting married abroad or a funeral abroad or such like. This would have had to be approved by the Governors and permission is not given lightly.

I doubt it is a holiday and agree with maddy.

If the school is an academy then that school is run as a business The head MIGHT have in their terms holiday time which can be taken at any time of the year (as in any other job) that means they would be working in the holidays (which they do anyway!)
More likely extenuating circumstances

JRY44, I think you have misunderstood me. I am not at all wrapped up with parental rights. I am interested in the idea of being more flexible with term-time whether for staff or pupils. Possibly even to the point of moving away from the rigid term structure which we have now.

Not sure how it would work yet!

There are many reasons why someone needs/wants time away from school whether member of staff or student. It might be a graduation ceremony, it might be a holiday (which for some families may be the only chance of a holiday). It might be something far more serious.

If annual leave were more flexible for staff and pupils then there is no need to make comparisons (this request for time off is reasonable, this one isnt). I get so many weeks of leave a year. I have to give notice, I have to consider what other members of the department are doing. Something I dont have to do is justify my time off. IME once everyone is free to take time off without explanation nobody is interested!

We have the system of terms and holidays we have now for no really strong reasons except that this is what we have always had. I would be interested in considering alternatives.

Worry there is no alternative. Schools cannot be run on flexitime ( would be great if it could). The concept of pupils and staff being away has huge implications on progress. Learning is a linear thing in school, a plan is followed. Dipping in and out by pupils and teachers would not work. Pupils in Year Ten or Eleven who miss time, miss out on important stuff and the teachers who have been constant can help them with what they miss.

Would be great to book holidays as and when but it is part and parcel of the job to miss out on things. I always explain it to DS that we have more time in holidays etc.

OP YANBU
I am a public servant. Tax payers pay my wages. I would not condone a lesser standard of behaviour on my part to that of my clients, end of.
Some of the attitudes on here sound more suited to a prison, IMO.
And flame away all you like!

lisbethsopposite

Why is a teacher or headteacher not informing parents for the reason for time off a "lesser standard of behaviour"?

(we don't even know if the Head was on holiday)

Worry, there is no double standard being applied. A student's request (or the parents request) for time off during term time would be considered against learning needs, examination timetables, etc, and the value of the time off. A family wedding, funeral, medical appointments are all valid reasons for taking time off school. Wanting to go the theme park on a weekday because the queues are shorter are not.

The same standard is applied to teachers. They can take time for medical appointment, funeral or a wedding after discussion with their head. I've even been granted time off to represent the country in my sport. They would not be given a day off because they feel like going to the theme park on a weekday to avoid the queues.

JRY44, I took your 'there is no alternative' and thought if someone put a gun to my head and said 'do it' where would I start?

I would start in early years. In my opinion the fixed start in September of rising 5s, the very early start in literacy are all orthodoxies rather than facts. Other countries do it differently with equally successful outcomes at the end of schooling. Job shares (unheard of when I was at school) show us that you dont have to have the same teacher in front of the class every day.

Not all learning is linear or on the same line. You dont need to learn about algebra before you learn history. How much learning is about repetition and feedback? The Sutton Trust report I read was interesting on that subject.

Of course you cant impose a flexible system on top of what we have now. In secondary then I agree that flexibility may have to give way but that doesnt mean that you couldnt have a more flexible system through primary.

Sadly I dont think it will ever happen. Education is locked in with its orthodoxies and with the idea that education was somehow better back in a mythical golden age.

There is also the problem of parents who as Jamie said want to endlessly question the trivia without looking at the bigger picture.

Perhaps if my numbers ever come up I will open a school!

For 2 days I probably wouldn't even notice, we haven't had a head teacher for almost a year now anyway.

I can't see why there is an issue, she would have had to apply to the governers so they would have made the decision based on the appropriateness.

No term time holidays are authorised at our school in ANY circumstances as people used to lie so the previous head stopped authorising any, people just take the children out unauthorised as it really makes no difference. it is entirely different as the LEA consider children missing school affects their education, a headteacher is not teaching them so it doesn't affect them at all as the deputy head would usually cover anyway.

DSs teacher had a term time holiday for her wedding, she had booked it whilst she was only doing supply work so didn't have to worry but the school knew that when employing her. Still parents were moaning about her without actually knowing the facts.

I do also think it is unlikely it is just a run of the mill holiday!

worry if you opened a school you would soon realise what I am trying to say! By linear I am referring to subjects and how lessons are planned and delivered. I teach classes ranging from 25 to 35. Core subject. Can you imagine having 35 pupils all at different points of the scheme? A teacher would not be able to deliver a lesson or ensure progress. Having done a job share I can safely say that in teaching it makes the job a lot harder due to the planning for continuity and progress. Teachers work really hard to make a job share work.

lisbeth as you use the term clients I assume you are not a teacher? Look at the bigger picture, the HT is probably not off on holiday but something more personal that in other public sector jobs would not be an issue. It is probably more playground gossip than anything else.

Dont worry JRY44, I wasnt planning on opening a school on the basis of a couple of MN posts!

My specialism (such as it is) is in web based and distance learning. From what I have seen, the technologies available to create a truly dynamic learning environment are woefully under utilised. The problem is not the cost of the hardware but getting people to see the possibilities and invest time in change.

This isnt a criticism of schools themselves, it is criticism of the highest levels of education which are more interested in looking back than embracing the possibilities of the future.

I doubt it is just a holiday.

However, even if it was just a holiday... If a HT can suitably delegate tasks and ensure there is a reliable contingency plan in place that does not disrupt the children's learning nor the overall running of the school, what does it matter??

Your child is in school to be formally educated, and if the HT's absence for a mere two days has not impacted on that then you are thoroughly unreasonable and have lost sight of the bigger picture.

I totally agree worry. I have been involved in county wide initiatives with web-based learning and have done lots of trials etc. biggest problem is without a teacher present there is always an excuse not to do it (the new dog ate my homework excuses).

I am afraid I may be old school though and still see children learning more from a real person, I could not offer pastoral support as well via web based learning.

DCs' primary was involved in one of these trials, lots of money spent but then the plug got pulled so all the kit languishes in secure cupboards (gathering dust with all of the rest of the initiatives).

The problem is where web-based is seen as all or nothing. I have seen it used very successfully as pre-read before attended classes (adult training) with a Learning Management System (LMS) to see who has actually done their homework. In my opinion it is the LMS which can really help you as it can be so much more than just a repository for coursework.

The possibilities for the new technologies within a classroom are mind-boggling. Controlling the learning environment. Tailoring exercises to the individual student. Lots of opportunities!

We use a couple of these in school already - it is the same kids every time who don't do the homework!

Many pupils don't have computers still. X-boxes and play stations and phones but not computers! One of the packages we use has an app but it does not give the same tests.

If HTs / teachers are allowed time off for once-in-a-lifetime events like a family wedding, are children too?

(I don't have kids at school.)

it is the same kids every time who don't do the homework!

Always will be I think!

Perhaps she had spent ( or will be spending) all summer project managing a major build to house the expansion of the school from 3 form to 5 form entry because of the pressing need for school places.The reason that she will be project managing the build is because the local authority will not be able to provide her with one and she knows through previous building experience that if you leave it to the builders it will be such a botch job it will take months if not years to make good the work. She may have had to take her young children regularly onto this building site so that she could deal with problems such as the playground surface being ripped up by the crane that delivered the new classroom. She may have been in soft play centres having crisis talks about the urgent need to make good this surface before term begins in 4 days time. I could go on but i hope you get the picture