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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that a headteacher shouldn't go on holiday during term time

283 replies

iwenttohollywoodtoo · 04/06/2013 18:49

I found out today that the headteacher at DD's school is on holiday abroad and won't be in school until tomorrow.

Technically she has only missed two days so AIBU to think this is out of order, especially given that the school has a policy of not authorising holidays for pupils.

Like many other parents would do, I booked a flight a day earlier when we went away at Xmas (at significant extra £), to make sure DD didn't miss school Hmm.

I am Shock to be honest. AIBU?

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 05/06/2013 09:37

I do not work for parents. I am employed by the school (actually by the Catholic church) and as an adult I am governed by the relevant workplace laws. Children are governed by laws relating to education and child protection.

People who bleat on about it being the same rules for teachers and students are ridiculous. Do you have the same rules in your home for the kids as the adults? Kids allowed to have a drink when they want? Go to bed when they want? Drive a car? Buy whatever they want? Of course not. Because they are CHILDREN. The rules ARE different.

ChunkyChicken · 05/06/2013 09:40

The idea that you make "public" your DC's d&v issue when actually you're just phoning or writing to 1 member of staff to meet administration reqs is laughable...

Tanith · 05/06/2013 09:44

Dear me, how very British!

"I can't have it, so why should she?"

soverylucky · 05/06/2013 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 05/06/2013 12:32

This is a discussion forum not a preparation for an industrial tribunal.

I havent said that staff and pupils should be treated in exactly the same way. There will be differences of course. Staff are employees, they have a contract, they accept the terms of the job including the implied or expected conditions. Pupils and their parents are consumers of a service but should not be treated as customers (IMO). They too at many schools sign up to a home/school agreement. There are directional similarities whereby staff, pupils and parents are bound to the school.

I dont see why it is flawed to suggest that where possible a directionally similar approach should be taken by the school. There will be differences of course (eg uniform, work hours) but if the school recognises that staff have a life outside of school which doesnt fit conveniently into the boxes of term time and holiday why can the same courtesy not be extended to pupils and their parents?

If the HT has a different approach to time and attendance compared to other staff then should the parents be aware of this? Should parents be aware that it is okay to contact the HT during school holidays? It would then be up to the HT to use 'away from office' ping on email and to switch off mobile during annual leave (just as any manager would do). Probably like the majority of parents I have never attempted to contact the HT during a school holiday. However, it would be useful to know if contact is possible.

I dont understand why asking this type of question is such a heresy on MN. It is an anonymous forum, no one has been identified or is identifiable. Surely MN is the place to ask a question like this or would it be better adding to the gossip at the school gate?

BTW I havent whined, stamped my feet or sulked. I am trying to have an intelligent discussion on what I believe to be a discussion forum. My DCs are coming out of the top end of compulsory education. Having been both parent and governor at primary school level I find discussion about different aspects of education interesting.

Babyroobs · 05/06/2013 12:34

a few years ago my son's yr 1 teacher took two weeks off in term time to get married ! Not sure why she couldn't have planned it during the 14 weeks of holidays they get.

MaybeBentley · 05/06/2013 12:53

Some of what you say Worry is true, but much of the OPs argument on here is that the school should have informed the parents of why the HT was away and the counter-argument is relating to the employee's right to privacy, rather than just that the HT shouldn't be allowed to be out of school in term-time.

MisForMumNotMaid · 05/06/2013 13:04

When I was governor at a school when the heads father died she asked for the children (primary) to be told she was on holiday. It was unexpected and she didn't want, or feel ready, to deal with children's endless questions on the subject.

I think YANBU to raise your eyebrows at the suggestion its a term time laying in the sun, no special circumstance holiday.

But i'm a proactive person. If I had this concern I'd email the parent governor and state my concern and hand it over to them. They then either enquire about it,or not but it'd no longer be my business.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 05/06/2013 13:19

The OP's OP is about saying that the HT should not take holiday time off in term-time as pupil's arent allowed to. Assuming that the HT isnt subject to the same school holiday constraints as the pupils then the HT will follow the rules which apply to him/her. I guess that the OP assumes that if the school is open then all staff are expected to be present. If you dont know different then that isnt an unreasonable assumption to make.

The difficulty arises if there is a degree of flexibility which can be applied but that flexibility is applied differently to different groups within the school community. Why would it be okay for a member of staff to have time off in term time to attend a family event if a pupil couldnt have an authorised absence to attend a similar family event?

Just to be clear I am talking about okay in the sense of a school community not in the sense of contractual rights.

We were fortunate that the HT at my DCs primary school was very aware of how important family time was to pupils (this was discussed and agreed with governors). As a result he was happy to authorise pupil holidays.

GoblinGranny · 05/06/2013 15:23

'a few years ago my son's yr 1 teacher took two weeks off in term time to get married ! Not sure why she couldn't have planned it during the 14 weeks of holidays they get.'

Confused So she married a teacher who also had 14 weeks holiday?
or she married someone who had no flexibility in the fortnight he could take off?

OttilieKnackered · 05/06/2013 15:37

Why do people always add a week on when they're talking about holidays? It's 13.

Repeated minor gripe of mine.

Must say I'm surprised she got two weeks off. We would get a day. Rest assured it would have been unpaid.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 15:46

Worrysigh

I feel a bit sorry for the fact that you seem to be here arguing the OPs corner when she is nowhere to be seen and hasn't responded to any questions.....

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 15:47

Ottiliie

It's 2 weeks holiday, but only 2 days off school

Couldn't be more trivial

changeforthebetter · 05/06/2013 15:47

speak for yourself hollyHmm (regrettably I do believe you are a teacher. not one my kids encounter, I hope Sad )

changeforthebetter · 05/06/2013 15:56

Bequick & ilovesooty Sad Wine Brew Thanks

I am appalled.

OP get a life grip!

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 15:59

WorrySigh

"If the HT has a different approach to time and attendance compared to other staff then should the parents be aware of this? Should parents be aware that it is okay to contact the HT during school holidays? It would then be up to the HT to use 'away from office' ping on email and to switch off mobile during annual leave (just as any manager would do). Probably like the majority of parents I have never attempted to contact the HT during a school holiday. However, it would be useful to know if contact is possible"

You are making weeping suppositions about the school's approach to staff absences.

You are assuming that in the absence of the HT no-one is in charge.

You don't know what the parents have been told about the HT's absence (because the OP didn't tell us)

midoriway · 05/06/2013 16:17

A teaching college took 3 weeks unpaid off midterm to go on Hajj. It was all handled very well by the school. It was organised well in advance, it was very open and transparent and I don't know of any other teachers who begrudged him for it. He was a highly respected RE teacher and I think the opportunity for him to go on Hajj could only have benefited his students.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 05/06/2013 17:06

Jamie I am not making sweeping assumptions, I am asking questions. The thread has moved on from a specific question to a more general thought about staff term-time absences.

I am not fighting anybody's corner, I am interested in the discussion.

Why is it so difficult to have a reasonable discussion in AIBU?

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 17:17

Worry

To be honest you can't debate unless you agree on the terms of the debate.

We don't know if the HT has a different approach compared to other staff - you assume she has. If she has, then I'd say this is a matter for the staff/governors, not parents.

Your question about contactability assumes it is vital for parents to contact the HT - assumes there is no deputy (not very likely, I'd say).

Finally, I am having a reasonable discussion. I just don't agree with you.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 17:20

Oh, and you assume the HT here doesn't ever allow pupil absences, and that this is relevant to the matter of a HT being absent. Many of us don't agree that it is relevant. And we don't know if the HT agrees absences because the OP hasn't told us

I'm frustrated by the OP, actually.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 05/06/2013 18:11

I am trying not to making assumptions about the OP as the discussion appeared to have moved on to more general points about school absences.

Perhaps as a discussion this would have been better in Education than AIBU.

However, we are where we are. So, Jamie, as a general principle, do you think that schools should try to take a directionally similar approach when considering requests for term-time absence whether from staff or parents for their DCs?

This isnt a facetious question, I am genuinely interested in your answer. Attitudes to education have changed so much since I was at school. For my parents, school was always right even if it was wrong. I am not so certain. We didnt take DCs out of school for family events or holidays but would it have been so wrong if we had done so?

Then if we do allow a directionally similar approach for staff is it so wrong for staff to take time out of school for family holidays or events?

It would of course be a huge step away from the rigid term structure we have at the moment.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 05/06/2013 18:15

No, I don't

I think attitudes to school have gone too far towards parents feeling that every little decision schools make must be accountable to them (the parents). This seems to be an example of that.

Sorry for being a bit arsey

seeker · 05/06/2013 18:29

I don't think teachers should be forbidden from leaving the school grounds at lunchtime, told they can only take £2.00 spending money on trips, and made to wear a sunhat before they can go outside either!

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/06/2013 19:02

Babyroobs
"Not sure why she couldn't have planned it during the 14 weeks of holidays they get."

13 weeks.

If you are going to moan at least get if right.

JRY44 · 05/06/2013 19:17

A number of points ...
babyroots maybe the teacher had her wedding booked before she started the job and the school agreed to honour it, just as it would happen in the private sector. She may have booked the wedding two years in advance ...

worry in my 15 years of teaching I have never known a member of staff have time off for a holiday ( in various schools), but I have known pupils be told they are away and they jump to conclusions. I have known staff be given leave of absence for various reasons from weddings, graduation ceremonies to funerals and to visit sick relatives. Most of these are unpaid, and never really discussed with pupils or parents. Are you suggesting that a parent whose child has a graduation ceremony should miss it unless the head gives permission for a family to take two weeks off for a cheaper holiday?

OP I would imagine that the head has a vey good reason to be off, and an even more important reason to keep it private.