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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that a headteacher shouldn't go on holiday during term time

283 replies

iwenttohollywoodtoo · 04/06/2013 18:49

I found out today that the headteacher at DD's school is on holiday abroad and won't be in school until tomorrow.

Technically she has only missed two days so AIBU to think this is out of order, especially given that the school has a policy of not authorising holidays for pupils.

Like many other parents would do, I booked a flight a day earlier when we went away at Xmas (at significant extra £), to make sure DD didn't miss school Hmm.

I am Shock to be honest. AIBU?

OP posts:
LindyHemming · 04/06/2013 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EliotNess · 04/06/2013 22:23

The reason why kids have to give detailed absence becomes very clear if you ever do a school attendance meeting or get involved with EWOs or the parent is prosecuted. Ropey reasons or repeated "rashes" can point to neglect or condoned absence.

Feenie · 04/06/2013 22:25

Your comparison involved an explanation from the governors regarding the Headteacher vs an explanation from the parents regarding the children, WorrySigh.

Hth.

seeker · 04/06/2013 22:32

Presumably the was an effective a deputy Head in place?

Heads are often away at conferences, cluster meeting and so on- I'm amazed that anyone noticed HSBC wasn't in school those two days to be honest.

And oh this if the children have to do it so do the teachers thing. Really?

ilovesooty · 04/06/2013 22:36

Thanks echt and FeelingHorse

To describe it as horrible would be rather an understatement. That was just the beginning I'm afraid. And all because my personal information had been shared with parents.

ilovesooty · 04/06/2013 22:38

And oh this if the children have to do it so do the teachers thing. Really?

Let's face it, it's parents who think this who bring up children who whine all the time along the lines of: "If you can wear earrings why can't I?" etc.

BeQuicksieorBeDead · 04/06/2013 22:51

Last year I was off for three weeks after a miscarriage. Parents demanded to know where I was, and started talking about writing to the govs... Local authority etc. my head teacher tried to diffuse the situation by saying it was a private matter. Rumours started to spread that I had been.sacked/ hit a child / had an affair with another teacher. Eventually a TA at my school told the parents why I was off. When I came back none of then could look me in the eye for the rest of the year.

One of the kids told me his mum had seen me.getting in a taxi with a suitcase, in my holiday clothes. I broke down in tears in my boss's office. Good.authorities are not always that good. Or have an axe to grind. Dont put yourself in the position those parents were in.

BeQuicksieorBeDead · 04/06/2013 22:53

ilovesooty feeling your pain!

ilovesooty · 04/06/2013 23:56

Likewise, BeQuick !

OrangeLily · 05/06/2013 00:07

Ilovesotty Hmm and BeQuickSad you poor things. I don't think any of these parents think for one minute that teaching is a job, just like any job. That teachers like anyone else are entitled to privacy.

Can you imagine in the private sector?? lets say you work for a big bank, you're quite senior and you have lots of customers. You unfortunately have a miscarriage/a tragic death in the family/a family wedding/ an operation on your bowel/uterus/anus, etc.

Can you imagine emailing every single one of your customers/employees and saying 'Please do excuse me for being absent from work but I had a terrible miscarriage/family death/etc. I hope you can forgive me for inconveniencing you in such a manner' .

OP get a grip.

And as for 'banking' this information. The head teachers job is to follow the rules the government gives her. That's what she/he is paid to do. FFS.

BeQuicksieorBeDead · 05/06/2013 00:19

I an thinking about running a stall at this years Summer Fair, as I am pregnant again and the gossip had already started. ' Guess the father of the Baby' anyone?! Thought I could stick a pic of my dp between Ryan Gosling and Richard from Pointless.

BeQuicksieorBeDead · 05/06/2013 00:20

Am not an

MidniteScribbler · 05/06/2013 00:55

At my school we are permitted a minimum of five days per year time off in lieu up to a maximum of ten days if you are doing camp supervision or any of the other extra curricular activities we offer that require weekend days of work (musical, orchestra, etc). It can be taken at any time with the approval of the head. Most people take a day here and there to cover medical appointments, funerals, sick family members and I doubt most people even use all of it, but it's good to have them there if you really need it for any reason. I've only ever taken mine as a block once, and it was as I qualified to represent Australia in a major overseas sporting event and I was actually encouraged by the head to go.

This is the first school I've worked in that has this system, and I think it's fantastic. Teachers aren't having to sneak around, calling in sick to try and get a day to go to medical appointments (try doing IVF when you're a teacher!) and because people can take the day off when needed, the school is able to have cover arranged and the teacher can leave lesson plans and information. No more rushing around at 7:30am trying to get a sub for the day. Teachers are happier, treated like valuable employees, and are willing to give up their weekends (without complaining!) to provide extra curricular activities. No need to make excuses for busybody parents either. Mrs X is on her time off in lieu day. End of.

Jinsei · 05/06/2013 01:06

If this were some sort of compassionate or sick leave by the HT then this could have been communicated without giving any more detail. Happens in other work settings all the time. It would have only been sensible.

But it doesn't happen in other work settings all the time. Hmm I manage a large team at work and I frequently have to authorise unexpected leave for a variety of reasons - employees have families and lives out of work, and sometimes stuff happens. I would share basic information about these absences with colleagues on a need-to-know basis, but I wouldn't dream of sharing this information with our clients or with the general public. It would be a breach of the employee's privacy to discuss this, and the client doesn't need to know the reason for the absence, it's none of their business.

Why should teachers be treated any differently? This is a matter between the HT and his/her employer. Let the HT's boss be the judge of whether or not it is appropriate for him/her to have the time off, as in any other workplace.

Wellthen · 05/06/2013 06:20

WorrySigh

Parents have to tell the Head reasons for their leave because they are asking permission. It may have escaped your notice but YOU are NOT the person who gives permission to the Head! The governors do. The govenors probably do know the reason. To compare the two makes no sense because, amazingly, parents are not in charge of the school. Thats like saying parents should also have to tell the other children or the dinner staff the reasons for their absense.

Also - if a parent ignores the rules and goes anyway (and the kid bangs on about the great time they had at Disney Land cos we went anyway cos my Dad says school's crap) what happens? Nothing! If a Head were to go against the wishes of the govenors they would probably be sacked.

Not.Comparable.

How can you not understand that the difference between the Head, her staff and the children is erm...she's in charge?!

Jaynebxl · 05/06/2013 06:33

I was off with a gall bladder OP for weeks and various parents thought I'd gone on holiday. You just never know the exact circumstances, as people have said. Who knows if the holiday was to where her beloved sister lives and they were attending her wedding or something?

WorrySighWorrySigh · 05/06/2013 07:26

Given that this is an anonymous forum, the school, the HT and the OP are not identified or identifiable from the description I dont see why this was such an unreasonable question for the OP to ask.

I recognise that parents, children and staff are different but they are all part of the same school community. There will be different rules for different groups within that community but I dont see why those shouldnt be directionally the same.

Time off sick whether for staff or pupil shouldnt require detail to be automatically provided either way. Staff should have a right to privacy, so should the pupil. If detail is needed for admin purposes then that can be provided on request.

If the school has a blanket ban on time off other than for illness for pupils but allows greater flexibility for staff then this is directionally different. The school is recognising the staff's need for a life outside of school but ignoring the pupils' and therefore by extension the parents'.

MaybeBentley · 05/06/2013 07:37

If we are following that logic maybe I can expect to be given my head's and the teacher's home phone number as the school asks for mine???? Wink I really don't get this logic of comparing an employee with a pupil. The head WILL have given the details to the governors, just like any employee gives information to their boss, but it doesn't mean even brief information should be shared with potentially hundreds of people. Parents are not the boss for school employees they are their customers.

If the OP is given information but without details surely that will lead to more gossip or be so vague it is pointless, or still overstepping the head's rights to privacy?

Jinsei · 05/06/2013 07:40

But worrysigh, this has already been addressed by wellthen. Parents have to ask for the HT's permission to take their kids out of school, and must therefore share the reasons for doing this with the HT. The HT must ask for her boss's permission to take time off from school, and must therefore share the reasons for doing this with her boss.

The HT does not need permission or approval from the parents or children to take time off. Therefore, there is no obligation on them to share the reasons for their absence. Can't you see the difference?

Nacknick · 05/06/2013 07:43

So worry, if we were to pursue your rather flawed argument...

I don't recall an occasion where pupils are required to be in school in the school holidays or evenings but I'm guessing this happens quite often for teachers. Is this not ' directionally ' different as well??

MissAnnersley · 05/06/2013 07:43

There are many reasons why the rules should not be directionally the same for teachers and pupils.

  1. Teachers are adults are in paid employment.
  2. Teachers sign a contract which outlines their conditions of employment.

You do understand worrysigh that teachers do not actually attend school? They are in school in an entirely different capacity. I really do not understand where the ambiguity lies.

Jinsei · 05/06/2013 07:45

BTW, I don't work in a school, have never been a teacher but have had permission for a term-time absence declined. This doesn't stop me from seeing that there is a fundamental difference between teachers as staff and children as pupils. It is absurd to suggest that they should be treated in exactly the same way.

cory · 05/06/2013 07:59

Dd's HT bullied her all the time about her (well documented) medical absences and the school wrote her down as an unauthorised absence when she was ill in hospital. They showed no respect for her privacy, but were heard to openly express their belief that she was faking it in the hearing of other pupils and parents.

Even so, I would not have spent my time nosing around the HT's absences. It was bad enough that somebody had that attitude, it wasn't something we needed more of. There are people whose job it is to evaluate the reasons for absences: in the case of pupils, it will be office staff, HT and EWOs, I don't know who it is for HTs but I'm pretty sure it's not me.

A respectful attitude towards other people goes a long way. I would not want my children to learn to a sneery and suspicious attitude towards other people's needs.

13loki · 05/06/2013 08:14

BeQuick I worked through my miscarriage because of situations like that. Sorry for your loss. I got cover for 1 lesson so I could call the midwife and sit in the staff room sobbing. Back at work 3 days later (my next working day). It was ridiculous, but I didn't want to have to explain to everyone why I was off.

I doubt any teacher with a significant teaching load would take days off in term time without extenuating circumstances. The setting cover, checking the work from cover lessons and then reteaching the things that should have been covered during those lessons is more work than just going in and teaching the lessons.

echt · 05/06/2013 09:31

Worry appears to be working an a world of "community" that exists outside laws governing employment and education, despite repeated posts stating:

FACT: The school does NOT make the rules about attendance by pupils: the government does this. The home/school life interface is not a school decision, it is the government's. They make the rule and the school applies it.

FACT: These rules do not apply to teachers. Their contacts are subject to different legislation.