7 year old 'I want to die' - what is the best way to get him help?

[dilemma2013]

Name changing (semi) regular for reasons i'm sure are clear. Posting for high traffic.

Ds1 has had 2 close friend (A and B) since starting school 2 and a half years ago. They are all 7. Lately B has seemed quieter and less a part of the threesome than he used to be but I'd just put this down to the normal friendship fluxes that happen at this age, especially in groups of 3. He has also had a baby sister just before he turned 7. I'm mentioning this because it may or may not be relevant. We are friends with all the parents and socialise with them although not especially close to B's parents.

Ds1 has said to dh today, unprompted, that B has on several occasions said things like 'I want to die' and 'my parents don't love me anymore now they have my sister'. On gentle questioning by dh he said that B has cried a few times.

We are absolutely clear that we are not going to ignore this but are not sure what the best approach is. My gut reaction was to go round and speak to his parents tonight when he is in bed. As friends we'd want them to do this for us if it was ds1. Dh thought though, which hadn't crossed my mind, was that given that this seems to be about them perhaps we'd be better off speaking to the school who will have access to professional help that we clearly can't provide. However if they found out we'd done this without speaking to them it would be friendship changing for both us and possibly the boys.

Clearly we want to do what is best for B with his parents feelings (and our friendship) being a secondary concern. To clarify we've never seen any concern in the interactions between B and his parents and they seem like a normal loving family.

What would you do?

It's a tough one but I think your DH may well be right. They will have experience in handling these sort of worries and will certainly have experience in painful conversations with parents, IYSWIM. They may already have worries about B and/or know a bit more than you do about how he's feeling.

And I think if I were one of B's parents then I would understand why you went to the school rather than to them - you're saving them the embarrassment of talking to you directly about whatever's going on, and you're asking the professionals for support, which is fair enough.

I would speak to the parents, as it seems you are on friendly terms.

I would speak to the parents first, not the school.

Jesus. Ouch.

I appreciate what you say about concern for B being the highest priority, but I would say his parents' feelings and your friendship should not have any factor while making your decision. Focus solely on the fact that a 7 year old may put himself in danger.

Raise it with his parents - gauge their reaction: "oh my god, I can't believe it {sob}" or "ignore him, he's just being melodramatic and attention-seeking." If they won't give him the attention he needs, take it further.

In a blunter manner than is needed: to hell with what happens to your friendship.

Speak to the parents - don't go behind their backs to the school! I am sure they will be horrified and do their utmost to reassure him that he is loved. Maybe suggest they speak to the school and their HV but if they are reasonable people im sure they would do this without suggestion. The little lad isn't saying his parents are being mean to him or anything, just that he is feeling left out, this must be very common but of course the "wantin to die" is very worrying and must be communicated to his parents, but it could hopefully be that he doesn't really understand what he is saying.

I agree with you OP. If you weren't close to the family it would be a different matter but, as you say, if they find out (and I think they will) that you spoke to the school before them, there would be wider fallout.

Good to hear that your ds tells you important 'feelings' stuff too .

I agree with McNew and squeakytoy. If it is about the parents and what is going on within the family the information you give them will hopefully give them the impetus to make some changes.

If they discover you've gone to the school first they could incorrectly perceive you as a busybody or just be so embarrassed that they lose sight of the real issue. Unfortunately many schools - with the best will in the world - just don't have the time to sort out this kind of stuff.

I'd speak to the parents, and to school. I'd tell B's parents first, because, as you said, if roles were reversed you'd like to be told. But also make it clear that you're going to speak to school - you're concerned about your DS (worrying about his friends), about B, and "they're bound to have come across this before, and be able to suggest things that might help B come to terms with having a new sister, and understand that you do still love him as much".

I'd suggest that we went together to speak to the appropriate person at school. (But if they suggested just they do it, insist that I was going to speak too, citing concern for my DS).

Some good advice here. I would echo it. Parents could seek advice from school to gauge whether he's been seeming 'down' there too, lots of extra tlc needed at home and good routines.

talk to parents say first that B seemed sad now and thought you did not love him anuymore now he had a wee sister, then say I just assumed he was prhaps a bit jealous of new baby as obviously there were just 3 of you for so long so I never really mentioned it but today he seemed even sadder and told my son he wanted to die so i thought I would let yuo know what he said as I am sure you will know best how to reassure and comfort him

then judging my their reaction " wow really I had no idea he felt that bad I knew he was feeling his nose out of joint a bit and we have spent lots of time with him but he clearly needs more" if so you need do nothing more but if they shrug shoulders and say well he just need to stop the melodramatics and pull his socks up then you may need to mention elsewhere

most parents are decent and will appreciate you telling them just like you would going to school as first time unless you have evidence that parents will blow up or react badly is not the best first move

Would a school not have an obligation to address a concern as serious as this? We have every faith in the head teacher and her attitude was a massive factor in choosing the school for our boys. Obviously she wouldn't tell us what the outcome was but i'm concerned by the comment that they might not have to address it...

The suggestion of going to the parents first and gauging their reaction is a good one. However his Dad is a very private person that its taken us a while (and nights with wine) to get to open up. I'm not sure it would be that easy to gauge his reaction one way or another - dh and I were just discussing this.

I'd definitely speak to the parents first. This little boy has had 7 years of being an only child and now his world has been turned upside down with the arrival of his sister.

His parents probably haven't realised what a profound effect this has had on him. Whilst that isn't ideal, involving the school and possibly other authorities wouldn't be my first choice.

If your son was feeling left out and jealous , would you want your friends to let you know or would you want them to go to the school and possibly involve social services?

School would have an obligation to address it. Any concerns about a child who attends a particular school can be relayed to the person in charge of Child Protection (often this is the HT).

If I was good friends with a parent I'd raise it with them first, but I OTOH I see no harm in raising with the school first, and I'd probably do it in your circumstances, simply because it may well be a good short cut to getting him some help - parents may well not know what to do. School may have mentors of counsellors on-site, or might suggest referral to CAHMs via the GP.

I doubt school would involve social services

mentors or counsellors

Definately don't Speak to the school behind their backs if you consider yourselves close enough to drink wine with them.

Why would you go to the authorities immediately without talking to the parents, who are allegedly good friends?

Surely its not difficult to speak to them and say "look, X said this to Y today, it really upset Y, X sounded as if he really meant it, I hope you don't think I'm prying, but Y was so concerned, and so are we, you know we are here for you as a sounding board if you need us"

And the parents can seek advice from their GP and get a CAMHs referral in need.

The circumstances you describe in B's life could be my own 7 year old ds to the tee .. Except (please God) the "I want to die" bit. So thinking as B's parents I'd be utterly shocked, saddened and humiliated if you spoke to the school before me as it suggests you don't trust me to be concerned enough myself - and almost hints at suspicions of abuse at home.

School may well address it but I think (in my experience) would be more likely to play it down. Schools, doctors, any professionals have seen a lot worse and 'kids say things like this' etc. I think they would probably say, B has been a bit withdrawn and has made a few comments which indicate he may be feeling a bit sad about his sister. I think they are less likely to convey the seriousness you obviously feel about this.

I would definitely talk directly to the parents. They may even be aware of it too, and could reassure you how they're dealing with it already, if this is the case.

OP is your instinct that this is really about the fact that B has been an only child for 7 years and is not coping with the change very well, or do you think there is an underlying problem? (That is, in addition to his having a new sibling?)

If it's the former then there shouldn't be a problem talking to the parents. If you feel the latter then you need to talk to the school. I would still talk to the parents first though.

I'd speak to his parents.

I'm sure they'd be heartbroken if they thought this was the situation.

My DD is much older much much older and she had cried over feeling unloved since DS arrived almost 6 months ago.

She still displays acting out and attention seeking behaviours but she is old enough (and we are lucky enough) that she was able to discuss her fears and annoyances with us.

Give the parents a chance to show their DS that he's just as important as he's always been.

I think you are mad to go to the school behind your friends backs... Unless you genuinely suspect abuse that is,in which case I wouldn't hesitate.

If you do speak to school behind their back this could become a really serious issue which could undermine them as parents, go on their file and be investigated. The fact you are even considering it suggests you may think he is being maltreated.. Otherwise why not just tell them he is in some distress so they can help him?

Seems crazy to me.

Am in quite an intolerant mood

Yes, on reflection, I'd talk to the parents first