to think people ought to learn to use cutlery properly

[snooter]

I'm not talking about the left-handed using it the "wrong" way round, or even the way some people hold a knife like a pen rather than, well, a knife.

I've noticed more & more young people, teenagers mainly, using cutlery in frankly bizarre ways such as clasping the fork vertically in a fist & scraping off chunks of food that is pinned by the knife. Usually while leaning sideways onto an elbow at the same time. I notice them in restaurants mostly, as I'm not going round spying through windows, & can only assume they eat with their fingers at home.

Boomba, at home is a different story I think.

Genuine question for those of you who use knife in the left hand, but are right handed.

If you are cutting a slice of cake, or buttering bread which hand do you put the knife in?

I have a friend who claims he 'can't' use a knife and fork the right way round but he will use a knife in his right hand to butter bread.

I don't understand why you then swap over for eating. And he can't explain it.

I don't understand why people use cutlery the "wrong" way at all and I'm left handed.

Surely using a fork requires about as much dexterity as using a knife?

Obviously where a single piece of cutlery is being used eg spoon or fork then using your dominant hand makes sense.

Although I used to eat soup, cereal etc with my right hand to be polite.

I think knowing how to use cutlery is incredibly important as it's practical, less messy and a social leveller (in the classic which-knife-to-use scenario).

sash I'm a 'wrong hander'. I think I would use my right hand if I was cutting cake for example. I can't explain it either. I wouldn't go as far as to say that I can't use them the right way round, I haven't tried.

I wouldn't even notice how.people hold their cutlery! And I am suprised to hear it bothers other people. I don't make a noise or a mess when I eat and I am perfectly polite! I've never had a smoozie type job where I need to impress some self-important vacuous snobs, so ultimately I don't care

What on earth do you eat at home to "often" use your fingers, Boomba?

My job involves a lot of entertaining and eating out. I take junior staff out for lunch when they first start work with me a) because it's a nice thing to do but b) so that I can discreetly observe their table manners and ability with a knife and fork. If they eat like pigs, then they won't be taken out for official lunches.

I agree that no-one notices if you use your knife and fork more or less properly, but people do notice if you chew meat from your fork as if it were a lollipop, eat with your mouth open and can't use a knife to cut food properly. No problem with the American way of eating (if you're American), but general ineptitude with a knife and fork is cringeworthy.

Snooter - I am a cutlery snob. It's not the poor kids to blame, it's adults who have brought them up like that.

Our children have been taught table manners: no elbows on the table, not speaking with mouth full, etc. They also excuse themselves after eating dinner if the rest of us are still eating. People have just stopped doing this and standards have gone.

AND my in-laws are a different culture (which is why we are sometimes eating with fingers at home), we have friends from other cultures too. Sometimes it involves eating with spoons from a shared plate

I'm happy that my kids are versatile and non-judgemental. That's more important IMO, than living up to some out-dated classist ideal. And actually will probably be more valuable in the world of business, in the coming years

I am left handed and hold cutlery the 'normal' way- it seems perfectly sensible. I started with a spoon it fork in my left hand and so it was perfectly natural that when I got a knife it went in the right.
I don't think YABU- people ought to have the ability to eat in any setting and any company.

Boomba - no problem with what you do at home. But - as Exoticfruits says - people should have the ability to eat in any setting and in any company. I went out to lunch with someone I used to work with, and he spat his olive stones onto the floor. The rest of those at the lunch were like this: . He might do this at home, for his mother to clear up, but it's not acceptable in public.

Yes, I don't spit on the floor!

But, you know, ultimately it is acceptable in public isn't it? He didn't spontaneously combust. No one died from a fit of the vapours did they

I will excuse any type of 'manners' if my eating companion is entertaining/engaging/witty enough. If I have been bored enough to even notice their cutlery skills, I would probably avoid spending time with them again

MIL she sticks her little finger in the air and holds her knife like a pen which I notice because it is different from what I was taught but it isn't wrong.

I notice far more the fact that she flicks the food around her plate, sneering at it as if it were poison, making rude comments about it being foreign, complaining at DH for eating too much and at the children for not clearing their plates. That is much worse table manners than anything anyone does with their cutlery.

Boomba - You really think spitting olive stones onto the floor is acceptable?? What an unbelievable statement to make.

I assume Mrs Schadenfruede's guest was from overseas where perhaps this is the culture but he was ignorant enough to think it was acceptable in the UK (I assume Mrs Schad is somwhere in the UK?)

I can't stand this "I'm right because I'm so well travelled and cosmopolitan and you're wrong because you're provincial and conforming with your local culture."

I have lived and worked in several different countries for most of my adult life and one thing stands true; part of being a citizen of the world is to respect and adapt to the local culture.

When I lived in Israel I wouldn't smoke or use my ipod in public during Shabbat, I didn't wear my shoes inside people's homes in Asia and in the UK you don't eat with your hands in a restaurant.

I agree with the OP.

And like a PP I too am wondering if every thread now has to contain a SN disclaimer?

If I can find out how to upload a photo, I will post a copy of "homework" for 4 year old sent home by a local girls's school! Basically it says,

Home work this week

Please remind your daughter how to use a knife and fork correctly.

Hold the knife with the handle in the palm of the hand ( not like a pen ) and the fork in the other hand with the prongs pointing downwards.

It has 2 photos of the correct way!

YANBU.
Then again, manners, or rather, lack of thereof, is a surefire indicator of people one shall avoid/ignore/etc.

I'm right handed and use my cutlery the so called wrong way round. I can only explain it as being I use my right hand to control the main thing I'm doing. When buttering bread or when eating I use my right hand to control the main thing I guess.

That's when everyone says 'Oh but isn't your cutting hand your main hand you stupid bitch?' And I have to say 'well, no. My main hand is my main hand.... the one I eat with whether I'm using one piece of cutlery or two. I don't suddenly swap over when you give me a knife any more than I'd swap writing hands if you gave me a ruler to use.

In general I don't think you are being unreasonable. Table manners are very simple and those who lack them tend not to realise how off putting their eating habits can be to others.

That being said, my brother is almost blind. There is no outward way of telling this. (his choice, if he can manage through life without a stick or a dog then that's up to him- before people start). Despite being raised n a household where table manners are important he can't eat in a strictly 'normal' way. I'm sure some people would look at him and think his table manners are awful. Sometimes you just don't know.

But in general, yes, people should be taught the correct way to eat- then I suppose it's their choice if they go with it or not.

When you reach the point that you are disgusting people around you, it is time to work on things IMO. Unfortunately people don't always pick up on this because everyone around them is to polite to point it out or reluctant to cause offence. Maybe the guest in the restaurant who was spitting olive stones onto the floor didn't notice the reactions of the other people around him since they were probably trying to be very polite and appear not to notice or be fazed by it.

There are some people I don't like to eat around because the noise or the manner of their eating really puts me off my food. I notice how people use cutlery but it doesn't really bother me that much. One thing I struggle with is when someone blows their nose loudly during a meal. I have a friend who does this invariably at every meal. He is otherwise lovely, his eating habits are a bit energetic but this is the thing that pulls me up every time. He seems not to get through a meal without blowing his nose really loudly at least once. I suggested once or twice that he go to the loo to do that because it might put other people off their food (meaning actually ME!) but he didn't take it in. I try to avoid eating with him tbh.

sashh
Genuine question for those of you who use knife in the left hand, but are right handed.

If you are cutting a slice of cake, or buttering bread which hand do you put the knife in?

Either hand, just depends which hand I pick it up in. Ambidextrous, can write with both hands, although I guess I favour the right hand just a tiny bit.