to think people ought to learn to use cutlery properly

[snooter]

I'm not talking about the left-handed using it the "wrong" way round, or even the way some people hold a knife like a pen rather than, well, a knife.

I've noticed more & more young people, teenagers mainly, using cutlery in frankly bizarre ways such as clasping the fork vertically in a fist & scraping off chunks of food that is pinned by the knife. Usually while leaning sideways onto an elbow at the same time. I notice them in restaurants mostly, as I'm not going round spying through windows, & can only assume they eat with their fingers at home.

YANBU. It is also off putting to see someone using their fork like a spoon. It is not at all snobbish to think like this

"Hold them back?
I have never had a job interview at a restaurant."

That may well the be the case with your chosen career; mine (as many others) centered around client lunches/dinners and people do notice bad manners.

YANBU it drives me mad too. My DP's brother in fact holds his knife and fork in the wrong hand and then complains he can't cut his meat properly!!!! He is 31 :@( Also witnessed MIL hold a childen leg upright with her fingers and then saw meat off with her knife. This is in a smart restaurant. The biggest craze is the american thing of cutting all the food up on your plate (not necessary if you have pasta etc) and then holding fork in right hand and stabbing away at food, having abandoned your knife. I think these things are all okay at home etc, but children should be taught the correct way. When I worked in sales and marketing, my boss would not hire someone who couldn't eat correctly (he used to do informal chats over lunch, before interviews) as he said he couldn't send people out to smooze with top clients if they didn't have table manners. I agree it sounds snobbish, but it is a fact of life. I think kids can do as they please when they grow up, but it is my job to give them the tools to do things properly or they are disadvantaged when they are older. Just my thoughts though, society is getting more relaxed so I expect these things will matter less and less over time.

YABU

"I'm not a snob - I just have snobbish beliefs"

I notice if someone holds cutlery like a pen (ie with end visible). Course I don't judge, but I notice

A guide, for those who need one. Like my ds1
Please don't think just because you have these values your dc will have when they leave home.

www.wikihow.com/Use-Cutlery

QAnd that thing of not sitting upright - scooping food into the belly of a fork and lowering your face into the plate, it's troughing rather than eating. I can't eat with people who cant eat properly.

Dh brought someone home who kept thumbing his food onto his fork rather than use a knife. I really was full of angst by the end of the meal.

Meh. I'm conflicted. On one hand I think that 'manners' that result in other people feeling uncomfortable are bollocka of the highest order.
On the other hand... I can eat correctly, and when I met the bitchface step mil from hell only she never was because I outlasted her! Ha! who openly sneered at everything about me, it was nice to know there was something she couldn't judge me on.

I'm also mum to a dyspraxic child. I've got a whole list of issues to work through with them before I attempt to refine his cutlery skills. The fact he sits still long enough and true s to use a knife and fork is good enough for me right now.

@mil eating children's leg!

[

Phew have googled and of course it brought me straight back to mn and a similar thread with links to images.

And the good news is I don't hold my knife like a pen. Still in the wrong hand though

I've no time for table manners that involve 'no elbows on the table, port must be passed to the left, scones must be broken with your fingers rather than a knife etc. etc'. Those are just wanky rules that are created to catch the plebs out.

But learning how to use a knife and fork properly, that's basic and important. People will notice, they will hopefully be polite and not say anything, but they'll notice.

manners and how you hold your cutlery are two different things. I was taught to do it 'correctly' but chose not to use cutlery in this way as it is mostly stupid. Incredibly inefficient and for what purpose? To hold with tradition and for snobs to look down on other people.

People being unable to use cutlery is another issue.

Every parent should instil good table manners if possible.

My teenage son drives me bonkers sometimes watching him eat.

I swear he will have curvature of the spine when he is older.

But I will remind him again and again what I expect of him at the dinner table and that includes using cutlery properly.

Yanbu. I'm not bothered about children or teenagers but seeing a group of adult men holding their fork like shovels and using a knife like a hacksaw is pretty off putting. Of course no one dies from bad manners but they do show effort and respect.

American style is inoffensive IMO. They cut one piece, lay down the knife (II think across the top of the plate). Transfer fork to the other hand, eat then pick up the knife again to cut another single portion of food. I suppose the idea was to slow you down in politecsociety in order not to appear greedy.

I don't know what is meant by holding yourcfork like a spoon, if it means placing foodcon the inside curve of thecfork, this is how a lot of Europeans eat and it is both efficient andctidy. They push foodcwith the knife sidewise onto the fork . We are taught that is shovelling but a small amount at a time is a perfectly reasonable way of eating IMO.

In different countries this is handled differently but all perfectly inoffensive IMO. Thatc16 year olds struggle to eat meat, holding a big lump of food on your fork and biting off bits etc is going to disturb a lot of fellow diners though so worth tackling IMO

Argh... I feel your pain OP. I have a friend who does it all properly to start with, using knife and fork in correct hands, but he cuts up everything on his plate in one go, then swaps the cutlery around and shovels it up with his fork... what's all that about then

For parents of dyspraxic DC, fear not, my DD is desperately dyspraxic, but had it sussed by the age of 16.

I use cutlery properly.

But I draw the line at fish knives. I can't use them because they are shaped for right handed use.

YABU and need to get a life and think about something else

Cutlery holding comes under "etiquette" rather than "manners".

There is no logical reason for a strict code of etiquette on some matters, cutlery holding being one.

Etiquette changes over time and differs culturally.

There is no "correct way" of doing some things, there may have been a forced standard, usually to show what supposed social class, that you belonged to and therefor was a much better person. Cutlery holding was enforced because you wouldn't have wanted to be associated with those "savages" (anyone non white,or poor) who ate with their fingers and spoons.

However, many of these have been rejected, as they are outdated and in some cases, insulting.

Ynbu and if that makes me a snob then oh well!

thenightsky is your friend American? That's how they eat.

squoosh... no, he is from the West Coast of Scotland

YANBU

Manners are what's seriously lacking in today's society and if we start amending that maybe people will start respecting others again too!!

My children are the only ones I know who still say "please may I leave the table" after a meal!

Manners are the root of it all I tell you!

I'm sure your medal is in the post anothershittynickname