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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to avoid a school because of a "do not abuse the staff" sign?

153 replies

Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 16:20

I've name changed for this because I don't want to be outed!

My child is in a choir. Rehearsals each week are in an infant school that is several miles from our home and I know nothing about.

As you enter there is a sign saying that verbal and physical abuse will not be tolerated. This sign is at adult height and is addressed to "visitors to the school" so clearly not intended for the pupils of the school.

Just had an interesting chat to a friend about this. Seeing the sign puts me off the school straight away. Wouldn't even consider it (not that it's an option, but if I saw a similar sign in a school that was an option I would rule it out). My friend thinks I'm overreacting...

But seriously - the sign is clearly aimed at adults (so I assume parents). Aibu to want to avoid schools which have to warn parents not to be abusive even before they enter?! It freaks me out!

OP posts:
CommuterMadness · 02/06/2013 21:57

My DC go to a school with this sign in reception. It's a very good school, Ofsted rated good. It's in a very mixed catchment though.

I must admit I was slightly concerned about my DC going there at first but although I don't mix much with the parents(I haven't grown up in the area, I don't talk or dress like a local, I'm far scruffier!), the children are absolutely delightful, very polite, very thoughtful and a pleasure to talk to.

The school's pastoral care is wonderful, receptionists are kind and friendly. The teachers are caring and motivated. I've been very impressed.

I've seen signs like that in my local bank and hospital- I still use their facilities.

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 22:00

commuter thank you - it's good to hear a really positive story!

OP posts:
Ragwort · 02/06/2013 22:02

I tend to agree with you Hawk - personally I find those signs very off putting, and to be honest, does anyone really take any notice of them? People that are likely to be rude/aggressive etc aren't exactly going to read the sign and think 'oh goodness, I had better behave myself' are they? Hmm.

I hate that sign at our Post Office where quite frankly most of the rudeness comes from the staff themselves Grin.

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 22:02

Actually, at my dsd's school parents (during school hours) have to be buzzed into the school grounds and then again into the reception. To be met by a terrifying (but soft hearted) receptionist. I'm guessing that if anyone was after a fight or being rude they wouldn't get past the gate, let alone in the building!

OP posts:
Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 22:04

Thanks to everyone who's posted. It's really interesting and challenging. I've read every post and am off to mull it over with dh Grin (not a euphemism)

OP posts:
DameDoom · 02/06/2013 22:07

Ok, in an ideal world we would not have ' Do not chin the teacher or else' signs... however, I do miss some signs. No heavy petting, dive-bombing or smoking in the council pool. Great days.

daftdame · 02/06/2013 22:11

I don't disbelieve parents can be abusive I just don't think these signs would seriously deter them.

If people are continually being expected to behave like animals, being treated as if they are sub human, well perhaps this will actually lead to them behaving as such.

In an environment where emotions could potentially run high a sign like this will do nothing to diffuse the situation. Yes have good security but don't treat parents like the enemy before they have even entered the building.

DameDoom · 02/06/2013 22:21

Sub human? Come on daft, I know the signs are usually printed in comic sans and laminated slightly on the wonk but sub human is going it a bit.
As a school staff, we are remarkably adept at diffusing most situations and do on a daily basis, but, in the likelihood of physical injury, a gentle reminder that there will be consequences may not go amiss. Not that it will always work granted.

Alisvolatpropiis · 02/06/2013 22:32

daftdame do you think the signs saying the same at every hospital in Britain are also treating people as sub human? Hmm

daftdame · 02/06/2013 22:33

Doom I admit that particular piece of my phrasing was a tad strong. However I don't think there is anything gentle about these signs. Having them betrays an attitude that parents are not to be trusted to behave in a reasonable manner. Not conducive to being partners in a child's education.

Why actually have them? Do they genuinely make you feel more safe? Good policies, good training and a supportive HT would be more likely to make me feel safe, as a teacher.

If I worked at the school I would probably feel quite embarrassed if they displayed these signs.

daftdame · 02/06/2013 22:40

Alice I'll say this again, I don't like these signs anywhere.

As I have said above my wording was strong but holding negative assumptions of whole groups of people can be seen as dehumanising them.

People in hospitals are ill and should be cared for. There are security procedures in place, why openly make people feel like they are held in suspicion when they are at their most vulnerable?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/06/2013 22:44

I may be wrong but when I see these signs at the sorting office, ballet shop (?), Gps and hospital, I translate as 'you're going to be annoyed here. You're probably going to be so annoyed you want to shout and swear. We're not going to change anything about how we do things so that you won't want to shout and swear: you just mustn't.

ilovesooty · 02/06/2013 22:51

Why is it treating people as untrustworthy is these signs are in schools but they're acceptable in hospitals? Would you turn away and leave A&E if you saw a sign safeguarding staff?

And yes: good policies and a supportive HT are great. My last schiool didn't have either. And it didn't have a sign, and if a parent came in steaming the HT would always assume it was the teacher's fault.

Perhaps if every school displayed these signs as a matter of course people would stop being so offended.

ilovesooty · 02/06/2013 22:53

X post, sorry.

'you're going to be annoyed here. You're probably going to be so annoyed you want to shout and swear. We're not going to change anything about how we do things so that you won't want to shout and swear: you just mustn't

Schools could hardly afford to behave like that even if they wanted to.

WilsonFrickett · 02/06/2013 22:58

daft some of the parents at DS last school did a pretty good job of dehumanising themselves tbh. Regular fights, smoking (normal and drugs) at the school gates, drinking alcohol while waiting for DCs on a sunny afternoon, a father calling his daughter a 'wee cunt' as a term of endearment. That's before the playground fights, regular police presence because of child protection meetings, the fact that if you went to the local chemist straight after drop off you'd see parents waiting for their methadone (what is e ettiquette for that?) and of course I was not privy to specific attacks on teachers but I know they happened.

Guess what though OP? It was an amazing school and DS and I still miss it.

WilsonFrickett · 02/06/2013 22:59

Child protection issues, not meetings.

ComposHat · 03/06/2013 01:24

I have no problem with signs of this type. .. on the proviso that the respect demand ed from parents/patients/customers is reciprocal.

Doctors receptionists in particular, please note: the chances of someone calling you an ignorant cunt are substantially reduced if you don't act like an ignorant cunt.

Obviously no one deserves verbal abuse at work, but if you arein a customer facing job and are rude and dismissive, then you will find yourself in a lot more confrontation situations.

ravenAK · 03/06/2013 01:33

Yes ComposHat, but in schools, parents don't come in & kick off because the receptionist is an ignorant cunt.

They come in because they've just had a text from their dc, who has been put in detention by Mrs Thing for calling his best mate a fat twat & tipping the contents of his pencil case all over the floor, which is actually totally unfair because Mrs Thing didn't hear the best mate call the dc a gay loser & anyway she's always hated dc since that time he didn't hand his homework in & she completely unreasonably thought that was because he hadn't done it, when actually he had, but his mate, Fat Twat, had it in his bag etc etc.

Really, they want to shout at Mrs Thing, but by now she's busy teaching year 11. Failing that, they want to shout at the HT & get him to sack Mrs Thing & permanently exclude Fat Twat, but he's in a meeting.

So they shout at the office staff, who really haven't been ignorant cunts & don't deserve it.

Hence the signs!

Dorange · 03/06/2013 01:50

God forbid your PFB mix whith those poeple ..........

Dorange · 03/06/2013 02:11

So op you are not even considering this school, why do you need to discuss this thread with your dh? So you can re-inforce the prejudice in your household?

Ragwort · 03/06/2013 07:05

Totally agree with daftdame - what is the point of these signs? People who are rude and aggressive aren't going to care about the sign, if they even bother to read it. So why put up these signs in the first place (in any situation, not just a school). Does it really encourage people to behave better or is it more likely to put your back up? I have worked in customer facing jobs all my career and have never used such a sign.

DangoDays · 03/06/2013 07:23

With ragwort and daftdame. I don't think this would alter behaviour but may serve to dehumanise as well as make parents nervous about what lies beyond the reception! I don't like these signs in general though.

I am surprised to hear of the sign. I work in a secondary in inner London which has gone from special measures to outstanding. A lot of our issues manifested themselves as abusive and violent behaviour but the shift in becoming a calmer and respectful environment is down to overhauling so much about the school's culture that lies way beyond a sign. I do understand why this would be off putting to parents and students alike.

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 03/06/2013 07:35

dango I love hearing about schools that have turned around. Cheerful news to start the morning Grin

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TheRealFellatio · 03/06/2013 07:37

Unless it is now standard practice for all schools in that particular LEA, teh it would send the message to me that the school in question has a particularly high proportion of 'problem families' with bloody awful parents, and yes - I would think twice about sending my child there for that very reason.

TheRealFellatio · 03/06/2013 07:42

I think the difference between seeing a sign like this in a hospital, a doctor's surgery, any other type of public sector service provider and a school is that the other placecs will cater to a much broader demographic and you are in and out, in an hour or so, maybe once a year.

A school is a bit like a family, or an office environment. you are your children will be living cheek by jowel with those people who wish to behave offensively or aggressively to staff, day and and day out for several years. And if the parents don't know how to behave when solving conflict, chances are their children won't either.