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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to avoid a school because of a "do not abuse the staff" sign?

153 replies

Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 16:20

I've name changed for this because I don't want to be outed!

My child is in a choir. Rehearsals each week are in an infant school that is several miles from our home and I know nothing about.

As you enter there is a sign saying that verbal and physical abuse will not be tolerated. This sign is at adult height and is addressed to "visitors to the school" so clearly not intended for the pupils of the school.

Just had an interesting chat to a friend about this. Seeing the sign puts me off the school straight away. Wouldn't even consider it (not that it's an option, but if I saw a similar sign in a school that was an option I would rule it out). My friend thinks I'm overreacting...

But seriously - the sign is clearly aimed at adults (so I assume parents). Aibu to want to avoid schools which have to warn parents not to be abusive even before they enter?! It freaks me out!

OP posts:
daftdame · 02/06/2013 18:23

I don't think having a sign will prevent bad behaviour - it will probably annoy some parents.

It enforces a us and them way of thinking.

To me it is obvious that it is against the law to be abusive to any one. I don't need a sign to tell me this.

DameDoom · 02/06/2013 18:28

I agree with your last comment daft but not the first. I don't feel incited to headbutt my GP and they have signs galore. Mind you - the surly, officious receptionist...Wink

BellaVita · 02/06/2013 18:29

I work in a secondary school and believe me I would really like one of those signs and have asked on numerous occasions if I can have one.

I am not a pupil entrance but a visitor/parent one and I have met some "not very nice people" who seem to think it is ok to come and start shouting their mouth off at me.

One one occasion a mum sent the brother of a pupil in as she had only just got up and was running late (afternoon) because the pupil had a dentist appt. It was form time and the child (yr9 then) had forgotten about it and hadn't signed out but I cannot leave reception to go and get him but explained to the brother that once form time had finished I would be able to get someone to go to his next lesson and get him - no more than a 5 min wait. This brother wasn't happy and started effing and jeffing to himself about how I was sat there doing nothing. He then started to swear at me and tell me it wasn't good enough. He had to be removed from reception. He is now banned from picking his brother up.

I was scared shitless. We should not have to put up with this.

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 18:36

flogging The vast majority of schools were happy for me to do school tours with a tiny baby. And there were many other tiny babies there too! (State as well as private)

OP posts:
mummytime · 02/06/2013 18:37

I help at a school that has such a sign. It is needed, and so are the reminders to be a good example to the children at drop off and collection.

However it is a fabulous school, I have even considered transferring one of my DC there (from a school where such a sign would never be needed).

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 18:37

It's really interesting that people mention metal detectors. Now that really would put me off!

OP posts:
daftdame · 02/06/2013 18:40

I just don't see a sign as an effective way of this preventing this type ofj behaviour.

In fact it indirectly accuses before anything untoward has occurred.

I wouldn't comment about a sign in RL but I think it is meaningless. Does anyone think, oh yes I was thinking about being abusive but I better not. I would guess they are abusive because they've 'lost it'.

ilovesooty · 02/06/2013 18:49

That isn't really the point though. If they are abusive a sign is evidence that they have been warned and made the wrong choice.

BTW I discovered after I left my last school it had been surrounded by high fencing and electronic gates. I did wonder whether that was to prevent parents and ex pupils coming in or the current pupils getting out. Hmm

daftdame · 02/06/2013 18:54

The assumption is though that'll they're likely to be abusive.

It is a form of labelling unlikely to foster good relationships.

BackforGood · 02/06/2013 19:01

My dd2'ss school has a sign like that, right by Reception as you enter the school. It's a really lovely school, but, unfortunately, the lovely, kind, helpful, friendly receptionist there has been on the receiving end of abusive parents, and, as Sooty says, it's 'procedural', warning anyone who can't control themselves that that kind of behaviour will not be tolerated by the school's management. I see it as a positive thing that the school wishes to care for it's staff.

ComposHat · 02/06/2013 19:01

Just for now I worked as a youth justice worker and for one or two schools the stock response was to call the Police over playground fights. As a result kids were routinely getting criminal records and three month court orders over a dust up at dinner time.

It smacked of a lazy culture in which the school abdicated responsibility to discipline their pupils and were happy to criminal ise kids for normal teenage/childhood behaviour.

WilsonFrickett · 02/06/2013 19:03

I think you are missing the point of a sign like this - it's not actually aimed at parents (as pp have said, it's hardly likely to stop an angry parent in their track) it's aimed at staff. It's saying 'As the HT in this school, I won't put up with anyone treating you (staff) badly, so if anyone does I will take action.' It's a good thing I think, it shows a supportive and proactive HT.

And some of the niacest parents can be some of the nastiest to teachers.

Cosydressinggown · 02/06/2013 19:05

Yes, it would put me off a school so no, YANBU.

If someone is going to be rude and abusive, a sign is not going to stop them anyway. You think they're going to look at it on the way in and think, 'Damn, here I was going in all rude and abusive and thinking they'd be fine with it, but apparently they won't tolerate it'?

I think it creates a really, really shit impression of the school, straight off, and doesn't achieve anything.

MaybeBentley · 02/06/2013 19:06

I'm not worried about it. I'm amazed at the people who see teachers as fair game as they have to be "professional" and not respond to the abuse and threats of physical violence. I know a sign isn't going to stop it, but it does remind people that teachers have the same right to feel safe at work as GPs, etc. and abusing them because the reading book hasn't been changed or little Fred was told off for hitting someone is not acceptable just because the parent wants to stick up for their child.

Yes, I've witnessed all this as I drop DC off at a "leafy middle-class" school. I was shaking, so goodness knows how the poor teacher felt.

spg1983 · 02/06/2013 19:07

I work in a school where OFSTED judged pupils' behaviour as outstanding. Obviously there are those who don't rate ofsted's opinions but it is certainly a good school in a lovely catchment area.

However, we have the same type of sign up. Firstly it's quite standard nowadays but also when dealing with children and their education, some parents get very emotional and sometimes this can cloud their judgment with regard to appropriate behaviour and language. It happens everywhere, I'm sure. Doesn't mean the school is not good.

daftdame · 02/06/2013 19:10

wilson do they have one for the teachers too?

Surely in a complaints scenario a HT should be neutral until facts are established.

Anyone can behave badly.

I agree with ComposHat.

spg1983 · 02/06/2013 19:10

However, when I had an interview for a previous job in another school, the interviewer had to leave to go to hospital halfway through the interview day because they'd been punched by a pupil. I did judge that school, but I also accepted the job and loved it. Turns out the school was one of the worst ten schools in the country according to some league table somewhere but they didn't have the "do not abuse" sign up...!

DameDoom · 02/06/2013 19:12

Sadly, some people do need reminding big time. Part of my role is mentoring other teachers in school throughout our authority and I do feel reassured when I see these signs. It is a warning to those who would have no compunction to have a go that there will be repercussions - it's not really about a one-off irate parent but about those who will and do systematically and continuously abuse.

If you use public transport and threaten the staff, the police will get involved. It's the same in schools. I could tell you about a horrific incident to do with a neighbouring school. It went national. Can't though - would out myself and get into mahoosive shoite.

ilovesooty · 02/06/2013 20:08

wilson do they have one for the teachers too? Surely in a complaints scenario a HT should be neutral until facts are established. Anyone can behave badly

So do you think the signs should be removed from hospitals and doctors' surgeries too? How likely do you think it is that teachers are likely to jeopardise their careers by being verbally or physically abusive to parents and visitors to the extent that the incident is deemed to be their fault?

If the sign indicates the HT's support for his/her staff having the right to be safe at work I see nothing wrong with that.

HollyBerryBush · 02/06/2013 20:18

every public service premises I go into has one of these signs, be it a school, the dentist, the doctors, A&E and so forth.

I can't see why you are making such a big deal of it TBH

Original poster
Hawkmoon269 · 02/06/2013 20:50

Choosing the right school is a big deal to me.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 02/06/2013 20:54

Naturally it's a big deal. I fail to see why the presence of a sign safeguarding staff bothers you so much though.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/06/2013 20:56

It would put me off. I see those signs in the doctors, the hospital, the sorting office where you go and get parcels whose delivery you missed, and, bizarrely, the shop where I buy the girls' dance shoes. All places which are badly managed and generally crap.

To me, as someone who wouldn't ever start swearing and shouting, those signs say 'we are going to piss you off. We will not be delivering service at the standard you would probably like. However, don't you dare get narky when we do that'. I've never seen one anywhere with decent service or reasonable policies on anything.

Sorry. Am usually massively pro schools and so on, but I find those signs very very irritating.

thefuturesnotourstosee · 02/06/2013 20:56

I don't know OP. That seems mild in comparison to our local secondary which actually has 2 police officers on the premises permanently during school hours.

Maybe there's been an incident with a particular parent so they're making their views clear. Its likely to be aimed at a very small minority of parents really

daftdame · 02/06/2013 21:00

ilovesooty I don't like the sign- anywhere.

Just as teachers would not want to risk their career why would parents want to risk child's schooling / trouble with the authorities? My point is you shouldn't make assumptions about groups of people, it is where prejudice starts.

The sign doesn't make anyone safe. Good policies can help. To my mind the sign is not very welcoming, which is in itself divisive.