New house, neighbours don't want fence up....

[RaggleTaggleTick]

We have just bought our first house. The elderly man who lived there had allowed his neighbours to have full access and use of his garden for 30 years. The neighbours also had the same on the other side, so they have basically had 3 gardens.

They have built 2 large conservatories in their own garden and now have just a tiny paved area of space, they have said they don't know where they are going to put their washing line... They have asked that, even though we need to put some kind of fence up (young dc, they have small but deep pond), we only put a short trellis one up as otherwise they will have no light in their conservatories.

DH wants chest height fences, I would but am prepared to compromise, this is going to get awkward, are we BU?

If the house owner gave the nieghbour permission to use the garden then doesn't that mean that the nieghbour can't claim any rights to use it??
Are there any legal people who know????

Not sure if this has been suggested ye but speak to Land Registry. They were brilliant when I last dealt with them and clarified my easement issue. Correct no automatic right to light. My gut is you need to talk about it from your perspective not theirs. Building a conservatory under the belief they can use the old fellas garden as an extension of their land is just nuts IMO. Also thinking ahead your child will be getting bigger and before you know it she/he will be looking to climb a fence throws balls over etc believe me you need a high fence she is your priority and you don't want to annoy them with constant interruptions as that would be rude. Not to mention your privacy. I have had lovely neighbours and great relations with them because we value each o theirs privacy. I would clarify the terms and go and speak to them face to face but be firm making it clear you want to get on but also you value each others privacy.

If a right to light is a myth, why have RICS got a guidance note on how their surveyors should deal with it? here

There's a bit more information about how rights come about and what they are here: www.calfordseaden.co.uk/rights-of-light

It's not a myth, it only occurs in a relatively small number of houses. It will be in your deeds.

We have a neighbour that has a right to light, the solicitor bored us for a while about rtl.

Interestingly right to light covers structures and buildings not trees ( excluding llaylandi) it is not proven that trees block light.

How exactly, have the neighbours managed to contact you ?

I would want the fence up BEFORE we moved it, it would have to be a condition of sale as far as I was concerned.

I agree with the others. The vendor needs to have the fence erected BEFORE you exchange as a condition of sale. It should be a fence of the height you want, not the neighbours so that you know whether that is going to cause a problem.

But I would walk away. Neighbour disputes have to be declared when you sell and these neighbours are proving difficult already!!

Wtf? Why the hell would you touch a house where the garden is probably legally not your own?!

And euch to neighbours having access to the garden. Just no, no, no.

I am aware that you have had lots of replies but I hope you read this one. I have registered just to respond to your post.

First of all I agree with all the advice to NOT even consider exchanging until this is sorted out legally.

Unfortunately, I had a boundary dispute going on for years with my neighbour at my last house. Even if you know you are in the right, if your new neighbour decides to pull your fence down and use the garden, you will not be able to get the help from the police. It is considered a civil case and you will have to fight through the courts with legal representation. Make sure your home insurance covers you for boundary disputes otherwise this could cost you £££££. However, this may be excluded now as there is already conflict?

I agree that you need to contact land registry and definitely ensure the fence is reinstated on the boundary as a condition of the sale BEFORE exchanging.

I really wish you the best of luck. I have to say that this would be a red flag for me and probably a deal breaker. Not only have you already got boundary issues, you clearly have an unreasonable neighbour who could make your lives hell once you move in = un sellable house. You would have to declare any ongoing problems to future buyers if you moved again one day.

Please make sure you tackle this so carefully.

Poor Raggle Taggle, I feel as though everyone is raining on your parade!! I am sure it will be fine. you just need to get clarification on the legal issue and then get then vendors to put up a big fence.If it's big enough you won't be able to even see them over the top. Sod the neigbours.Right to light even IF it applies is a civil matter so they would have to take it through the courts themselves (they won't bother)You are only expected to disclose unresolved legal wrangles on the form if you sell.Not that they are miserable bastards!!

I dont think anyone us trying to rain on her parade. This is the biggest purchase of your life op. You wouldn't buy a dvd player without lots of research and reviews, so why just go buy a house when you know there are problems that need resolving.

The point with the neighbours is that if they are 'miserable bastards' now, you don't know what they might do in the future.

Clearly this a risk for every house buyer, but I think it is reasonable to employ extra caution in a situation where the neighbours are already being difficult. I would actually be tempted to go round and meet them in person to see how reasonable they are.

Wow, what a mess. Your solicitor should have sorted this out before you bought! You need to go back to them, and ask what the legal situation is. I'd want big great fences. I like privacy in my garden. Your neighbours are being VU. Argh!

I can see both sides on this. You really need to put up a fence, but it really doesnt need to be 6ft tall. 4ft is plenty. This agreement has been going on for 30 years, it is going to be a big thing for them. I dont see any point in alienating anyone over this, they agree that you need a fence, just state your case, be friendly and put the fence in.
It sounds like this is a stable community, where people have all lived together for years, and now people are moving out or possibly dying etc. Our old house was like this. We had the same neighbours for 25 years+. Fences were low, we all got on nicely. Over the fence chatting was quite normal. New people moving in was hard. The people who moved into our house took down the 3ft fence panels and put up 6ft ones. The neighbours were very upset. Its impersonal and does steal light.
I would clarify the legal issues, make friends with the neighbours and then put up a small safe fence. As this is a terrrace, probably with narrow gardens, 6ft fencing could really make them shaded and claustrophobic.

What happened Op?

C Q , op hasn't actually exchanged yet, so not bought the house . I'm guessing this has come up as a result of learning the boundary was legally theirs to maintain from solicitor looking at LR deeds and approaching neighbour about what to put up to demark it. Solicitor would have been unaware as to how the garden is currently being used unless either op or vendor have said.

Chest height isn't that high.

It doesn't seem like ownership of the garden is going to be an issue - more whether or not the new neighbours will be a pain or not.

I think you need some urgent legal advice from your solicitor and if it isn't 100% clear that you have total rights over the back garden then walk away. You cannot be in the situation where your neighbours have rights to use your land. I'm not sure about this, but those rights probably attach to the properties and not to the individuals, therefore should the neighbours sell, the people they sell to will also have rights to use your back garden. This could be a whole world of pain you are opening yourself up to and, if the neighbours do have rights, you could find it difficult to sell the property.

You also need to clarify the right to light issue. When we bought our property there covenants relating to the houses on our street that specifically stated there was no right to light.

Again, got to speak to your solicitor.

"No, it's the only one we've found (and been able to get at a reasonable price) in the last 6 months. "

That will be why. Other buyers have seen sense and ran a mile!

I would walk away too. It's not worth the risk of having an un sellable house. Especially if you end up having problem neighbours too.

I am sure the neighbours are nice enough now, as they dont want to make it difficult for vendor to sell his house. How they behave now, aside from the obvious, has little bearing on what is to come!

I think everyone on this thread is scaremongering OP. It doesn't sound like the neighbours are expecting you to not put a fence up, they have just expressed an opinion on what sort of fence. Not the end of the world.

I think the chances are that it could all work out perfectly ok - however there is a chance that the nieghbour who does sound a bit of an arse may try and claim legal rights to access the OP's garden. This needs to be addressed by her solicitor.

I think the size of the fence would depend on the dog and the children. If the dog is bigger or prone to jumping then a larger fence may well be necessary. If your children are climbers too.

I don't think I would give up on the house just because of this issue if you like everything else about it.

If you ended up somewhere else which you didn't like as much and that turned out to have really awful neighbours you'd be kicking yourself.

Good luck with the solicitors!